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tline3open  John Proctor Trott spoons--date?

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Author Topic:   John Proctor Trott spoons--date?
Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Six John Proctor Trott teaspoons followed me home from the flea market today. Want to help me guess the approximate date when they were made?

They have rounded oval bowls, no shoulders or drop, and very slim fiddle handles. They're monogrammed "LS" in feathered script.

The mark:

Stylistically, this looks like the first decade of the 19th century to me. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Wev's invaluable site has Trott born in 1776 and partnered with various other silversmiths at various times beginning in 1792 (John Proctor Trott). I don't know whether that puts constraints on when Trott would have used his own mark instead of the marks of the partnerships, and if so, whether it helps date these spoons and how.

Searching I found a reference to JPT in Modern History of New London County, Connecticut" (PDF here. see pg 558) that gives his birth year as 1769, not 1776.

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Zowie! I actually managed to make a live link! Woo-hoo!

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And here's a completely irrelevant photo of a pair of unmarked coffin-fiddle teaspoons. I'm posting it for no better reason than that they also followed me home today, and who doesn't enjoy a nice coffin-fiddle teaspoon?

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My dyslexic typing -- should read 1767, not 1776.

Your spoons are probably from the 1800-1815 era, after his partnership with Jonathan Brooks and before his son Thomas achieved his majority.

I wish I had a flea market like yours -- all I get around here is, well, fleas.

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, wev! That makes more sense--I thought 16 was a little young to be forming a partnership.

Fleas sometimes follow me home too.

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wev
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Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I nicked your mark picture, as it is a variation I don't have -- hope that's okay?

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swarter
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Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would put the date of the spoons a bit later, maybe 1805 - 15, but almost certainly before 1820.

The 1769 date is the one given in published references. To have been born in 1776 and working in 1792, he would have had to have finished his apprenticeship by age 16, 5 or 6 years earlier than was usual, but since he apprenticed with his father, the usual rules might not have applied. WEV will have to tell you why he has adopted the later date.

Edit: I am a slow typer and started checking references after your first post - I refreshed before posting but none of the others showed!

Your coffin-fiddles are from the same period. - too bad they are not marked.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 06-18-2011).]

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He apparently had at least three of these script marks, which most people find hard to read correctly presumably because of the long loop on the P. Two of the marks are in ovals, one with periods after both the J and P and one like yours with only a period after the P. A third mark is in a conforming reserve without periods, as on wev's page.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 06-18-2011).]

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wev--

Of course it's okay for you to use my photo--glad you find it useful.

I stared at the mark for a long time wondering what combination of Ts, Fs, Js, or Ss the letters might be. I wouldn't have guessed if I hadn't found it on one of the online mark pages among the Ts.

[This message has been edited by Polly (edited 06-18-2011).]

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wev
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Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Polly.

That group of script characters is always tough. The mark (in variation) is in my Initial List, but you have to figure out that the first is a "J" to find it efficiently.

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-18-2011 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know what? I think that IS where I first found it. I tried Ts and Js and Fs and Ss fairly randomly here and there until I saw that similar-looking mark on your initial list, and then I trotted around looking up Trott.

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