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T W Rice

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Author	Topic: T W Rice
Stev Frye Posts: 5 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-03-2000 01:18 AM [01-0196] Very helpful site! However, I haven't seen anything about my particular question. I am looking for information about T W Rice. [Aside: if you are fortunate enough to have family treasures WRITE DOWN THEIR HISTORY]. I have a set of forks stamped T W Rice on the back about halfway down the handle. They are engraved on the back with the family name ("Adams") rather than on the front. Was this standard practice at some point? No other marks at all. Any information or conjectures greatly appreciated! IP: Logged
Brent Posts: 1507 Registered: May 99	posted 09-03-2000 10:52 AM Well, a quick review of the references at my disposal failed to turn up a T.W. Rice. He may be an unrecorded silversmith, or possibly just a retailer. First, though, a few questions. What does the pattern look like? Does it have stamped or engraved decoration? What is the overall outline of the fork handles? Is the mark incuse, with just the letters stamped into the silver, or intaglio, where, the silver around the letters is pressed down so the letters appear raised? What part of the country did your family come from? For the record, sets of forks are rare in the U.S. prior to around 1840, so we are probably looking at a date after then. IP: Logged
Stev Frye Posts: 5 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-03-2000 11:16 AM The forks are 8" long. The pattern is very simple - just an incised outline around the edge (front and back) with a 'widow's peak' at the top of the handle. The wide part at the top of handle is gently rounded, about 2" long, and 1" wide, then it narrows to 1/4" the rest of the way to the tines. The mark is intaglio (see, I've already learned something new) with all upper case letters. My great grand mother lived in Massachusetts her entire life. Thanks so much for your help. IP: Logged
Brent Posts: 1507 Registered: May 99	posted 09-03-2000 03:59 PM Well, your forks are in what we call the "Fiddle Thread" pattern. The outline is roughly like that of a fiddle, with a thin "thread" around the perimeter. Get it? Intaglio marks like yours are usually indicative of a maker, rather than just a retailer. This rule does not always hold true, however. WEV of the Coin Silver forum has a huge list of New England silversmiths. Maybe Rice will appear somewhere in his list. At any rate, your forks are definitely American Coin Silver, probably from the 1840's or 50's. We'll see what else we can dig up for you! Brent [This message has been edited by Brent (edited 09-04-2000).] IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 09-03-2000 07:55 PM Just came in on the thread and can offer a tentative identification. I have a Timothy Wood Rice, born 29 Jan 1807 in Groton MA to Oliver and Mitty (Woods) Rice, on my makers family tree. I can not say positively that he is the maker, nor even that he was a silversmith. While he is definitely related to several smiths and a note received from a descendent states a family tradition that he was, I have not yet found any outside evidence to support the claim. He would certainly be the right age to produce the forks you describe. A search of available archives in Groton may turn up something -- the fiddle-thread was a fairly sophisticated pattern and may indicate a prosperous shop, likely to advertise in local papers and journals. IP: Logged
Stev Frye Posts: 5 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-04-2000 12:43 AM This is fascinating -- and I greatly appreciate your input! I have requested information from the Groton library on newspaper advertisements from 1840-50. Do you have any suggestions on how else I could go about locating information on from that period? IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 09-04-2000 01:07 AM I might go a bit further back - at least to 1830 in periodicals. You might also see if they have any of the local or statewide business directories for that period. I don't know about Groton specifically, but a number were produced in Boston that covered outlying areas. You might also try the Groton Historical Society and see if they have any information. If there is any chance you could get a scan of the mark, I would appreciate receiving a copy, as well as any records you come across. IP: Logged
Stev Frye Posts: 5 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-04-2000 01:19 AM Thanks -- I will be delighted to share whatever I find. We have a digital camera that I don't know how to use, but I will ask my patient husband to get me pictures of the mark and of the fork itself, then I'll try to post them. IP: Logged
Stev Frye Posts: 5 Registered: Sep 2000	posted 09-05-2000 05:41 PM More & more interesting. I have been speaking with the extremely helpful Greg Laing of the Haverhill Public Library. Short version: we now think the forks may have come from Vermont, and Mr. Laing is exploring that possibility. Details for wev: Mr. Laing tells me the 1850 Mass census shows three individuals named Timothy Rice (no middle inital on any of them). Two of them lived in rural western Mass - an unlikely location for a silversmith making the fiddle-thread pattern. The third Timothy Rice was located in Boston but his occupation was fishmarket porter. After more discussion, it turns out that Mr. Laing knew my grandparents quite well. The forks came from my grandfather's side of the family, and Mr. Laing remembered that branch of the family lived in Vermont. So he will turn his search in that direction. If we never get any further, it's been great fun learning this much -- and so nice to talk to Mr. Laing about my grandparents! IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 09-05-2000 08:48 PM I have been poking around a bit more. There was a Timothy W. Rice born 6 Jan 1802 in Windsor VT to Timothy & Eunice Rice. His marriage to Sarah H. Rice is recorded in 1836. There were a slew of Rice families in Vermont at the time apparently, so I don't know if Sarah was from a different family or if her last name is simply unknown. I wonder about that Mass census. A quick glance through the IGI records of deeds and civil records for the 1850's show Timothy Rice's in Beverly, Brighton, Deerfield, Conway, and Auburn. I am always a bit dubious of census material -- if there is no patently vested interest, people tend to slip the net. But it was a time of movement, so who knows, eh? Keep us informed -- this is what it is all about! [This message has been edited by wev (edited 09-05-2000).] IP: Logged
Brent Posts: 1507 Registered: May 99	posted 09-06-2000 05:10 PM Lilian Baker Carlisle's book on Vermont Silversmiths gives us this information about a Timothy W. Rice, probably the same person that WEV dug up. He worked in Castleton, VT, and first advertised as a jeweler in 1838. In 1848 he was elected to the Vermont House of Representatives. His occupation at the time was listed as "Goldsmith" From 1854 to 1865, he was listed as a jeweler and merchant in Castleton. He became the president of the Castleton Bank in 1854. At any rate, this appears to be the correct T.W. Rice. Whether or not he actually produced your forks is still a matter of conjecture. As WEV says, Fiddle Thread was not something that everyone could produce. Also, large dinner forks like yours were just not that common at the time. Several New York firms, though, were producing them, and such items would have been available to jewelers in rural areas through a network of peddlers/sales reps. My suspicion is that Rice was the retailer of your forks, not the maker. IP: Logged
bascall Posts: 1629 Registered: Nov 99	posted 10-04-2009 12:21 AM Timothy W Rice was born 29 January 1807 in Groton, Massachusetts. He married Sarah Harris. He was listed as a jeweler in the 1850 and 1860 U S Federal Census's for Castleton, Vermont. His wife Sarah and family are listed without him in Castleton in the 1870 U S Federal Census. He died in August of 1870. The Timothy W Rice who was born in Brainbridge, New York in 1798 is listed in the census's as a farmer and was with his wife Sarah in 1870 and farming in Caneadea, New York. IP: Logged

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