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Author Topic:   Just For Fun

Posts: 289
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 04-17-2005 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nihontochicken     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

In my meager and somewhat pedestrian collection sit a few pieces that, while not impressive, are indeed "fun".

The following is one of them, prompted by Ulysses Dietz's inquiry on the British/Irish Sterling board about the whereabouts of Brit silverware imported into America in the Colonial and Federal periods. My piece may be considered the complex conjugate of that inquiry, that is, people who imported themselves into America and bought local silver, but engraved it in old world language. Such I believe may be this piece, a 29 cm, approx. 6.7 tr. oz. coin silver soup ladle marked "P.B.SADTLER & SONS", a reverse field mark from sometime after the Ensko IV mark shown for 1850, Baltimore, MD. The ladle style is what I call American Revision Old English Pattern, that is, similar to the true Old English pattern, but with more swell to the finial, a shape popular in America around 1870 or so. This piece is engraved on top as follows:

The translation of the German script is "Julius and Elise for their silver wedding anniversary." On the underside are some follow-up engravings:

Now, I imagine this American piece could have been exported to Germany or Austria and then come back here some time later, but I think a more likely explanation is that it was purchased here by relatively fresh yet successful immigrants and engraved prior to their mastery of the English language. An assessment of the floral engraving style might help here. The piece was apparently retained in the family and re-engraved forty or so years later by the children or grand children. One of those pieces where "if it could only talk!"

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Posts: 289
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iconnumber posted 04-17-2005 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neat piece. I have seen quite a few American pieces before with German inscriptions. After all, millions of Germans came over here in the 18th and 19th centuries and often settled in clusters, founding "colonies" of their own everywhere from Pennsylvania to Minnesota to Texas. (It's said so many came to the former that the street signs in colonial Philadelphia were bilingual in German and English. Public school classes were also taught bilingually in many places.)

Many of these communities kept German as their main language right up until World War I; a few (religious communities in particular) still do today. As for the German presence in Baltimore, just ask H.L. Mencken ... or George Herman Ruth.

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iconnumber posted 04-18-2005 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Pattern was also used by Kirk and called Mayflower.


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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 04-21-2005 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interestingly enough Philip Benjamin Sadtler was German himself!

According to Ensko, Sadtler was at 166 Baltimore Street by 1800 and was in partnership with a certain Pfatz until 1803. Pfatz also sounds German!

There is a discussion of a possible photo of him at Baltimore City Nineteenth-Century Photos

According to this, he "was born 16 June 1771 in Homburg Germany. He married Catherine Sauerwein in Baltimore on 8 December 1812 in Zion Lutheran Church. Catherine was born in Baltimore on 25 Jan 1796 and died 26 Nov 1843. Philip lived to old age, dying in Baltimore on 3 March 1860. He was a prominent silver maker whose work is now displayed in the Baltimore Museum of Art."

In the Battle of Baltimore of 1814 it seems he was captain of the Baltimore Yagers - by the sounds of it a militia made up of German emigrants. Some of his papers relating to this are held by the Maryland Historical Society library:

    Baltimore jeweler and German immigrant (1771-1860): Baltimore and Reisterstown Turnpike stock, 1806; petition related to Bremen trade, 1807;
    records of the Baltimore Yagers including rosters and orders, 1812-19.
    18 items, 1804-58"

From Matchett's Baltimore Director for 1842:
    "PHILIP B. SADTLER & SON, (Late T. Fenton Hamilton & Co.)
    No. 172, Baltimore st., between Charles & St. Paul sts.
    Have constantly for sale an assortment of SPECTACLES, Mathematical and Optical Instruments, Thermometers, Barometers, Spy Glasses, &c. &c.
    Spectacles and Thermometers repaired. New Glasses fitted to Spectacle frames. Their Spectacles will always be furnished with Glasses of the best quality, and particular attention will be given as to the focus best adapted to the sight of the wearer, as great injury often results from an injudicious selection of glasses, or from the use of those of an inferior quality. Gold, Silver and Steel Spectacles, by the dozen, well assorted in Bights."

In the Baltimore Wholesale Business Directory and Business Circular for the Year 1853:
    "P. B. SADTLER & SONS, OPTICIANS AND WATCH MAKERS, 212 BALTIMORE STREET, BALTIMORE, Importers of Watches, fine Jewelry and Mathematical Instruments; manufacturers of Spectacles, Spoons, Forks, and Silver Ware generally.

One reason for the change in address may have been a fire which swept through Balitimore in 1846:
    "....the large three story brick house, the property of Mr. P. B. Sadtler, which was considerably injured. It was occupied in part by J. W. Bond & Co., as an Antiquarian Book Store.-They succeeded in removing nearly all their books, among which was the valuable illuminated Roman Missal, the loss of which would have been indeed a loss. They estimate their loss at $200 aud [and] $300, which is covered by an insurance of $1290 in the Firemen's office. Mr. Sadtler & Sons, Opticians, watchmakers and Jewelers, occupied and adjoining store-their loss was inconsiderable, and was covered by insurance. The house caught fire in the roof, which was partially burnt-the entire gable end also fell out. It was insured for $3,700 in the Equitable office, which will more than cover the loss." HISTORY OF JOSEPH SMITH

On the 5th March, 1860, the Baltimore Sun printed a notice of his death:
    "On Saturday morning, 3d instant, PHILIP B. SADTLER, in the 89th year of his age. The relatives and friends of the family are respectfully invited to attend his funeral on to-morrow (Tuesday) morning at eleven o'clock, from his late residence 91 Saratoga street, without further notice." OBITUARIES FROM BALTIMORE NEWSPAPERS

He was succeeded by his two sons, John Philip and George T. Sadtler.

John was born on 25 December 1824 and died c.1901. He married Caroline Elizabeth Schmucker, granddaughter of a German emigrant.

So, all told the Sadtlers appear to have been at the heart of Baltimore's German community.

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iconnumber posted 04-21-2005 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Noel Turner in American Silver Flatware states that the Mayflower pattern was introduced by Kirk in 1846.

The Maryland Historical Society in Baltimore may be helpful in gaining more information.

If the last name is engraved on the reverse it would be helpful. Looking through the marriages for 1832 in the Baltimore could be quite a task.

The comment about the Germans in Baltimore is interesting. There were so many Germans in St. Louis that the German Club did not change their name to the St. Louis Club until WW II.

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iconnumber posted 04-21-2005 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nihontochicken     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! Thanks, Patrick, for your in-depth bio on Sadtler. I hadn't thought to check on the ladle maker. The fact that he was first generation American of German descent bolsters the contention that the piece was bought and engraved here in America by German immigrants. Unfortunately, there is no last name engraved anywhere, only Julius and Elize (with a "z", not an "s" as I erroneously wrote earlier, see photo). If one has a cyber-worm to review the Baltimore marriage/death certs, then go for it! (My guess is that they were married in the old country, else they would have switched to English as their primary usage.) A manual search would be beyond comprehension. Thanks again, Patrick (also Fred and awht).

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Patrick Vyvyan

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Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 04-22-2005 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another possibility for Julius and Elize is that they were married in the Zion Lutheran Church in Baltimore in 1832. The church is still going strong and this year is celebrating 250 years of history, see: HISTORY OF ZION

The church was located on what later became Saragota Street - so close to where Sadtler died. Various Sauerweins were leading members of the church, and presumably relations of Sadtler's wife. Also the church, despite considerable controversy from members, conducted its services in German.

I guess not so many couples were married in the church in 1832 - so if the records survive, it would be relatively easy to explore this possibility. Perhaps you might e-mail them?

A fanciful, but not entirely implausible, explanation for your ladle is that Sadtler made it as a personal gift for friends in his local church.

I also wonder whether the church itself has any religious silver made by Sadtler which would cement the bond even further.

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iconnumber posted 04-22-2005 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nihontochicken     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interestinger and interestinger! Well, one point in order, the marriage date should be 1842, not 1832. A scant ten years, but perhaps a biggie, given the increasing flood of immigrants in this time. As far as a personal gift from a Sadtler (one of the sons? - the patriarch was gone prior to 1867), I'd guess not, reason being, I am never that lucky! smile. Still, I truly appreciate the informed input on this account. As I originally said, what fun! smile smile smile

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Patrick Vyvyan

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iconnumber posted 04-22-2005 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Philip Benjamin Sadtler

My mistake - I read the date as 1857, also assuming it was made in the old man's lifetime, and subtracted 25. The company continued for some time after 1860 as P B Sadtler and Sons, until it was renamed "George T. Sadtler & Sons", with George T's sons being George Washington and C. Herbert Sadtler. Apparently the company continued until about 1923.

However, I now have doubts about Philip Benjamin's sons! According to Matchett's Baltimore Director for 1842, P B was in business with one son. By 1851-2, the company is listed as P B S and Sons in Thomson's Mercantile and Professional Directory. Nothing unusual in that a younger son would be admitted to the partnership - but who?

The 1864 Baltimore City Directory lists the two as George T and John P Sadtler.

The Musselman Library of Gettysburg College lists a John Philip Benjamin SADTLER as born on 25 December 1823. No problem....

Except another Benjamin Sadtler, also born on 25 December 1823, and son of P B S, became a leading Lutheran clergyman (reinforcing the German religious community aspect, by the by):

    "SADTLER, Benjamin, clergyman, born in Baltimore, Maryland, 25 December, 1823. He was graduated at Pennsylvania college, Gettysburg, in 1842, and at the theological seminary there in 1844, and was successively pastor of Lutheran churches at Pine Grove, Pennsylvania, in 1845-'9; Shippensburg, Pennsylvania, in 1849-'53; Middletown, Pennsylvania, in 1853-'6; and Easton, Pennsylvania, in 1856-'62. In the last year he became principal of the Ladies' seminary at Lutherville, Maryland, and in 1875 he accepted the presidency of Muhlenberg college, Allentown, Pennsylvania He occupied this post until 1886, when, disabled for life by a fall on the ice, he was compelled to abandon the work. In 1867 he received the degree of D.D. from Pennsylvania college. He was a trustee of that institution in 1862-'77, and has held many offices of honor and trust in his church. He is a frequent contributor to the periodicals of his denomination, and has published numerous baccalaureate discourses and addresses, including "A Rebellious Nation Reproved" (Easton, Pennsylvania, 1861), and "The Causes and Remedies of the Losses of her Population by the Lutheran Church in America" (Philadelphia, 1878)."

So, is John Philip Benjamin the businessman the same as Benjamin the clergyman? Or perhaps John Philip and Benjamin were twins?
Makes you wonder what else they got for Christmas that year!

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Scott Martin
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Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 03-13-2014 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sadtler and Sons, posted 03-12-2014 11:14 PM in the new members forum

Originally posted by Sadtler and Sons:
Just stopping in to introduce myself. I am Doug, and I figured I would make my interests with you all very simple - hence the Username. I am a Great-Great-Great Grandson of Philip Benjamin Sadtler of P.B. Sadtler & Sons, Baltimore, MD [remove one "Great" to account for G.T. Sadtler].

I am a part-time genealogist, and I have seen that the Family has been inquired about here. Hence, I have decided to register here for several reasons...amongst them being to help with information that I currently know about the Family. I am also eager to gleam knowledge from those who know my Family's products and history better than I. My collection is very small, but is always growing.

Looking forward to a very symbiotic relationship with all of you. ::: Raises tumbler with a CLINK ::: Cheers!

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Scott Martin
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Posts: 11520
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iconnumber posted 03-14-2014 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Jewelers' Circular-Weekly, Volume 78, Issue 1
February 5, 1919
pg 318

George T. Sadder, 1869
G. T. Sadtler & Son, 1919

WHEN Baltimore was yet in its swaddling clothes, although already rich in colonial and revolutionary history, there immigrated to this port a painstaking watchmaker and goldsmith from North Germany. He came to seek his fortune in the New World, and thus was laid the cornerstone of the firm of G. T. Sadtler & Son, now located in their handsome new building at 345 N. Charles St. Today this firm is 119 years old. Its founder was possessed of a wealth of the watchmaking and jewel-mounting art such as was obtained under the apprenticeship days in the finest horological workshops of Europe.

Philip B. Sadtler founded the business on Market St. (now Baltimore St.), and for many years he carefully molded the policy of the firm which has survived past the century mark. On reaching Baltimore, Philip B. Sadtler renounced his German citizenship and embraced the political and civic faith of America. A man of military training he deeply loved his adopted country, and in 1814 when this city was in danger of capture at the hands of the British, and during the same period of time that Francis Scott Key wrote the immortal song of the nation, Sadtler left his shop, organized and drilled the Baltimore Yeagers. He was made captain of the company which participated in the defense of the city when the British, under General Ross, made their fruitless attack.

Captain Sadtler died in 1860, and the business which was conducted on Baltimore St., near Charles St., was continued by his son, George T. Sadtler. After the death of George T. Sadtler, in 1888, his sons, George W. and C. Herbert Sadtler, formed the firm of George T. Sadtler & Sons. C. Herbert Sadtler died in 1899 and the business was continued by George W. Sadtler and Fernando Volkmar. George W. Sadtler died two years ago, and Mr. Volkmar became head of the firm at that time.

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