SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Silver Stories Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Silver Stories
tline3open  A set of 6 rococo spoons - one missing

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   A set of 6 rococo spoons - one missing
Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 04-16-2009 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[20-0109]

An internet friend one made that description of the story that I am about to tell. "A set of 6 rococo spoons 1 missing". A part from an amusing way of describing 5 spoons It has no relation to the story.

Part of the story is facts - hard facts. Part of the story is based upon research. Done by me and by other internet friends. In my story we start with the hard facts. Then you can judge whether research has found a forgotten story dating 1760.



5 spoons in violine shape - and they need polish.



Same maker made them. In Denmark standard is 4 marks 1. maker 2. city 3. guardian mark 4. tax mark. But in small towns no guardian - so makers often set city mark and their mark twice. But this one had no city mark - so he set 3 times makers mark. All in the process to tell that this was good quality. Customers knew about the 4 marks, but only a few knew the meaning of the four. People had the idea that silver with 4 mark was best quality - and surely Copenhagen makers was skilled. So our silversmith set 3 times makers mark.



5 spoons each with 3 marks. That is 15 marks in total. So identification easy.
Spoons made by Willads Nielsen Svingelberg. Established approx 1748 dead 1785.

Stubbek�bing is a small town at the small island Falster. During a period of 200 years a total of 7 silversmiths are registered. Not much but silver was expensive and not everybody could afford. In 1672 the town had 511 inhabitant decreasing to 467 in 1801.

7 silver smith during 200 years their work is not of high quality - and only a small amount is known today. And no city mark is known from Stubbek�bing.

All spoons carry the same inscription. JTS or possible JFS
T and F are very similar.

That was facts - now for research to find buyer and owner. So we turn into "could be"

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 04-16-2009 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We know that only few people lived there - and even fewer people could afford silver. We know that the set was at least 5 spoons, but normally they came in portions of 2, 4, 6, 8 or 12. So assuming 6 is very likely.

6 would represent a large investment/sawing. Who could buy. We turn to reading old archives. Another internet friend found the local nobility. Jørgen Scheel 74 years of age married, husband, mayor, local authority and merchant.

He was the kings representative. In 1766 he buys Tvedegard ( a manor/ administrative estate) he is the kings representative. (Gift Hosbonde Byefoged, Byskriver og Kiøbmand)
He could be our man - in that case T stands for the estate Tvedegaard.
He marries and his wife Catharina Staal comes from a family that is rich. Very very rich.

Jørgen Scheel could be our man in another way. When going through church archives we find the priest. A priest could have silver spoons. His marriage in 1760 is confirmed by Jørgen Scheel and amazing also his wife.
2 people should bear witness - but Jørgen Scheel as kings representative is sufficient. You dont need 2 then.
A woman's signature has no value - so why hers? being the leading lady of the entire Island and wife of kings representative bear witness - this is a great honor.


Copy of original marriage certificate from church books. Witness the nobility of the Island.

Now the spoons could be a wedding gifth from Jørgen Scheel and Catharina Staal. The priests name is Joachim Frederich Severin - the initials of spoon is JFS.

Or Jørgen Scheel made this gesture to give priest spoon with his initials Jørgen Scheel to Tvedegaard - and made initials so they could mean Joachim Frederich Severin - both donator and owner.

At that time one often gave presents with inscription "In remembering of XXXX"

We don't know - in any case the persons involved can be someone else. But they fit. And should I one day sell - I will use words as properly, most likely, cannot be proved against etc...

This is the story - guessing or I found the story - don't know. But it could be.

We don't really care - but stories like this makes fine dinner conversation. They bring silver to life...

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2022
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-17-2009 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great story Hose_dk. It is one of those stories that should be true even if it is not.

I often see five spoons or forks lists as a "set of five". I think what happens is one family member wants to keep one spoon to remember their relative and they sell the other five.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2019 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices