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tline3open  Tumlinge - is this too much guessing?

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Author Topic:   Tumlinge - is this too much guessing?
Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 04-18-2009 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We buy stuff and we want to get live silver. Sometimes we start thinking - but my mind does that reflect the mind of a silversmith in 1818? Don't know again my story include hard facts and possibilities...



I know that you guys have some very nice pieces of silver. These tumlinge are damaged and have had a hard life. They come from Sweden and Swedish standard is 1. katfott (for silver) 2 makers mark 3. city mark and 4 year mark.


but what is this only 3 marks - where is nr 4?

And the other tumling also 3 marks - why?
The 2 cups fit into each other like a hand in a glove

unless you happen to put the wrong one into the other - then they don't match,

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 04-18-2009 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The tumlinge are 6 cm in diameter and 3,5 cm high. Weight is 14 gram each. 28 gram in total.

The 2 tumlinge is made so that one fifth into the other. Decoration is almost same.
The 2 have different marks, one contain master + silver + city the other has master + silver + year. When we evaluate the 2 under one they are fully marked. But each is insufficient marked.

Master is Johan Jacob Ulfsberg 1793-1824
City is Nyköping
Year is N3 for 1818.

Now why have he not given both tumlinge 4 marks? The engraving is worn out so I have tried to make a drawing.

My guess is that it i wedding cups D=datter (daughter) S=son
In the silversmiths mind a couple marrying should together form a unit - not each person but a pair.

I think that in his mind "one fifth into the other" and
"one don't have fully marks - both to crate a full marking"

Is those symbolic gestures are right - or am i guessing again?

I have not yet found the couple that was married in 1818 - but one day....

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 04-18-2009 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Old silver that has had a hard life but been well used, like your cups, has a charm of its own. And I like your theory about the marks. How dull it would be simply to assume that the silversmith must have made a mistake.

PS In English we would probably call them tumbler cups, though strictly speaking the term should only apply to cups with round bottoms.

[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 04-18-2009).]

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 04-18-2009 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Inded one should never accept the most reasanabel explanation.
Always expect the unusual and unlikely smile

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