SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Silverplate Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Silverplate Forum
tline3open  "Moselle" silverplate - Reproductions?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   "Moselle" silverplate - Reproductions?
Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 12-29-2000 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Believe it or not, I am pretty much of a novice when it comes to collectible silverplate. I do know, though, that Moselle pattern silverplate is hotly collected; a recent Silver Stories post confirms this.

My question is, has Moselle ever been reproduced, reissued or faked? I have two Moselle cold meat forks. One is obviously quite old; the other looks rather new. Both pieces have very crisp marks and details, so neither piece is a cast reproduction, like you might find with sterling. The design of the newer-looking one is very slightly different from the other, mostly in the placement and size of some of the leaves. Also, some of the tendrils on the newer-looking one fade away, while they remain intact on the other.

I am guessing that Moselle was reproduced at some point, or that the die for the cold meat fork may have been recut for a reissue. Does anyone have some experience with this pattern? I would appreciate any insights.

Thanks!

IP: Logged

Paul S

Posts: 32
Registered: Dec 2000

iconnumber posted 02-27-2001 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul S     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I spoke to a very reputable silverplate dealer friend in Tampa, who probably has every known piece in Moselle. To his knowledge all of the dies have been distroyed and it is out of production. It may be possilbe that perhaps one of your forks was rather worn, and someone had it replated. That may account for some of the softer detail

IP: Logged

Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 03-01-2001 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Paul S,

Thank you for your information. Here are some pictures, though, which illustrate the problems.



In the top picture, you can see that there are two seemingly identical cold meat forks. The upper one is the one I am certain is genuine. The other is the problem piece. There is a difference in color, with the genuine piece being very slightly golden and the other more a steely color. Weight and length are identical.

Picture two shows the grapes and foliage in the middle of the handle front. Note the subtle differences in the size and placement of the grape bunches (Genuine left, Problem right).

Picture three shows the middle of the handle on the back. (Problem left, Genuine right). Note how the vine tendrils and the tip of the lower leaf differ in placement.

Picture four shows the back of the handle tip (Problem left, Genuine right). The size of the leaves is different, as is the leaf placement.

If you look at these pictures carefully, you can clearly see that there two pieces could not have come from the exact same die. The detail is equally crisp in both pieces, so I don't think we are looking at a buffed and replated piece.

Both pieces have the same American Silver Company "Globe" mark and Patent information. I have noticed that all genuine pieces of Moselle seem to have a small impressed "6" just below the globe mark. My problem piece does not have this "6".

Please feel free to share these pictures with your dealer friend; I would love to get to the bottom of this. Just so you know, I paid very little for the problem piece, and the dealer seemd unaware of the significance of the pattern. So, if it was intended to deceive it didn't result in much profit!

Thank you!

Brent

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited 03-01-2001).]

IP: Logged

cbc58

Posts: 259
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 11-05-2018 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wonder if anyone ever learned if this pattern was reproduced. I picked up a box of silver-plate flatware and in it were 4 pieces of Moselle, with 3 of them having the number 6 stamped under the makers mark, and one without.

The one without feels like it might be reproduced and the mark is a bit crisper than the others. Nice pattern though...

IP: Logged

agleopar

Posts: 840
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 11-09-2018 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a thought on dies - they wear out and part of the work in flatware making is making new ones. The master is carved in a soft state then hardened. It is never used to stamp the flatware, just to make the “hob” (not sure this is accurate but there is something called a hob). The hob is soft and the hardened master is pressed into it and then it too is hardened to do the work of stamping the soft metal. It wears out and a new hob is made. The hobs might have to be crisped up by a die maker, meaning he might do some cutting and polishing that then means the struck pattern is slightly different?

This may explain things. I know there are others who know more about this process but it may explain why a popular pattern changes slightly and why the same pattern could have different numbers etc. on them as opposed to hand struck marks put on after the stamping.

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 11-10-2018 08:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would usage and polishing be a factor. I wonder how often cold meat forks were used, and one of these may have had more use. Also could type of polish and manner of polishing over the years affect the appearance?

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices