SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Silverplate Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Silverplate Forum
tline3open  Hallmark Identification

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Hallmark Identification
steevesj

Posts: 11
Registered: Aug 2002

iconnumber posted 08-31-2002 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steevesj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-0792]

I have a fish slice with some hallmarks I cannot identify. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please click on the link to see it.

IP: Logged

juansi
unregistered
iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 12:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ONE OF THEM LOOKS AS A LION, MAY BE IT IS A BRITISH PIECE, BUT THEY LOOK RATHER WORN OUT

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The marks are rubbed, but at a guess I would say Sheffield, 1779, and made by Samuel Roberts & Co.

Could we see a picture of the whole piece?

[This message has been edited by wev (edited 09-01-2002).]

IP: Logged

steevesj

Posts: 11
Registered: Aug 2002

iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steevesj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, now I'm not sure what to think. The pattern looks very much like Lily first introduced in 1850 by Elkington and a staple of Chawner & Co. into the twentieth century. I still think the third mark is for Sheffield, but the black letter A (if that's what it is) makes no sense.

IP: Logged

steevesj

Posts: 11
Registered: Aug 2002

iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steevesj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wev:
Well, now I'm not sure what to think. The pattern looks very much like Lily first introduced in 1850 by Elkington and a staple of Chawner & Co. into the twentieth century. I still think the third mark is for Sheffield, but the black letter A (if that's what it is) makes no sense.

Thanks, it has been a hard one to figure out. If you think of anything else please let me know.
Jon

IP: Logged

Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 09-01-2002 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,

I'mm 99% sure that your slice is English silverplate. The second character is actually a beaver; I'm not sure why some silverplaters used a beaver in their marks, but there are enough that did, and they look like your second mark. The crown is a common mark found on plate from Sheffield. The fourth mark likely reads EPNS, or just NS.

I wish I could tell you exactly who made it, but it definitely looks like a piece of English electroplate from the mid to late 1800's.

IP: Logged

steevesj

Posts: 11
Registered: Aug 2002

iconnumber posted 09-02-2002 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steevesj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brent:
Hello,

I'mm 99% sure that your slice is English silverplate. The second character is actually a beaver; I'm not sure why some silverplaters used a beaver in their marks, but there are enough that did, and they look like your second mark. The crown is a common mark found on plate from Sheffield. The fourth mark likely reads EPNS, or just NS.

I wish I could tell you exactly who made it, but it definitely looks like a piece of English electroplate from the mid to late 1800's.


Silverplate? I was wondering if it could be. It definately looks like the Lily pattern. I have seen it that pattern which was mid 19th century. Is the A the makers mark?

IP: Logged

vano@rogers.ca
unregistered
iconnumber posted 01-10-2003 10:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beavers were used by Canadian companies a fair bit due to the fact they are our national symbol.

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 08-08-2003 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(A) is from steevesj's post above, (B) off a little plated condiment spoon. The beastie on both of them ... ? It does bear a little more resemblance to a beaver than I do
but it may just be a phantasy animal, meeting the requirement for a 'pseudo-lion' to give the look of a set of sterling marks while staying inside the law.
How likely is (A) to be 'JS&S' as well?

The beaver marks in the Unitts' book on Canadian Silver and SP, with very few exceptions, fall into the general type of the one on (C). They give no reason for pointing (C) towards Quebec - they may just have found it there. Actually, there seems to have been little plating industry in that province.

Now, do we have two 'JS&S's? one British and the other Canadian? or is it the same firm with one set pre-1896 and the other later? (and in between the agent sent a drawing of a beaver back to the mother country? smile ). The outlines of the corresponding marks on (B) and (C) are just about identical - sorry my photo doesn't show it. And lastly, does the second mark in (C) have a name? is it a 'pseudo crown' ?

Any comments from those with the long experience and the yards of reference books?

IP: Logged

adelapt

Posts: 418
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 08-11-2003 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for adelapt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Arg(um)entum:- I'd suspect that the marks used in the UK by 'JS & S' which incorporated a beaver stamp just got caught up in the net when Canadian marks were being documented. An easy conclusion to jump to when you live in the place & fall over beavers in the street... Your mark 'c' looks like a stylised Prince-of-Wales feather.

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 08-13-2003 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Adelapt! I hadn't come across 'PoW feathers' before. And I too think that they are all English but the question of the 'long-legged beaver' still puzzles me. What is it really and why was it used? Anyone else out there?

IP: Logged

Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 08-18-2003 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There was a "J S & S" making silverware in Birmingham c.1900, any connection? I'm afraid I haven't seen his mark, nor do I know if he produced plate.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices