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Author Topic:   Christofle goat head mark
Stephen

Posts: 625
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Continued from L'Orfèvrerie Alfénide.

quote:
Posted by Patrick Vyvyan

Just one remaining question: that smelly old goat's head - what is it?
I bow my head to the experts, but in this case I am still not convinced that the goat is a Christofle mark and your research suggests to me it was the mark of Charles Halfen's post 1878 independent operation.

I have two general questions for the Forum:

Does anyone know for certain of any Christofle which is NOT marked Christofle?

Has anyone ever seen the goat's head mark together with a Christofle mark?


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Stephen

Posts: 625
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Certain people may say au contraire.
I say, the proof is in the marks.

Here's an example, from the reference I cited earlier.

Christofle lidded jug, cast pewter alloy (Gallia metal), silverplated. Marks: Coat of arms with cock and ORFEVRERIE GALLIA = works trade mark = collection stamp 1908 - 1937, goat head = mark for silverplating in use ca. 1888 - 1950, 4942, 12, 19.

[This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 06-10-2003).]

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doobees

Posts: 277
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doobees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's no hint of a goat's head anywhere in the 1991 "Dossier de l'Art" text... so I was about to say it wasn't so - BUT I've just spoken to a Mme. M. Gros at Christofle and she stated that they did indeed use the goat's head at periods in their history. One between 1881 and 1935, and other 1935 - 1947. She explained which was which over the phone, but I'm not sure I caught it right, so I'm to call back tomorrow morning and she'll set up a day for me to go, just to ask all our questions. She said there were reference books and books to be bought in the Museum... smile
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Suzanne D

[This message has been edited by doobees (edited 06-10-2003).]

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Stephen

Posts: 625
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Suzanne, it appears that Christofle changed all of their marks in 1935. Can you ask her why? Thanks.

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doobees

Posts: 277
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doobees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Be glad to ask... smile

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Suzanne D

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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-10-2003 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great work, Suzanne!

Another question, related to the 1935 change of marks, is what exactly does the Knight/Horse chess figure mark, introduced in 1935, signify?

Thanks,
Patrick

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doobees

Posts: 277
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 06-11-2003 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doobees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have appt. tomorrow afternoon! I'll ask away... cool

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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-22-2003 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christofle goat's head???

This is not the best scan and the mark is worn. However, by a very lucky coincidence, on this wine taster which I picked up today there are the following:

1. Number three

2. A GOAT'S HEAD flanked by the initials C H

3. The Alfenide stamp

4. The HALPHEN stamp of Charles Halphen

To me at least, this reinforces my belief that the goat is not Christofle. Or at least, not an exclusive Christofle mark.

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doobees

Posts: 277
Registered: Jan 2003

iconnumber posted 07-18-2003 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doobees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The goat's head mark was verified as being Christofle by their museum curator... she even knew it was a boy goat - but now let's keep looking to see who else used it. Obviously Halphen did... Could you post a photo? I'm dyin' to see one!

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Suzanne D

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