posted 11-12-2003 07:03 PM            

vase

It has been to the jewelers to confirm it is sterling, 822 as marked.

mark

Here is the problem. I have had an ID and also found the mark in my Rainwater's silver marks book. But the mark is from Forbes Silver Company started in 1894. The patent number, 72882, on the vase is from 1867. Now why would you patent something almost 30 years BEFORE you were in business? So I took it to jewelers. All agreed and one tested. Yes sterling 822 hence the 822 mark. Also found the makers of the 1991 reproductions. They are looking in records to see if they can find where they got the pattern from. Maybe that will be a clue.
Next question, is the book wrong with the dates? Maybe the makers marks is not ID'ed correctly?
Any help would be great.

posted 11-12-2003 07:12 PM            

You are quite right about the maker, Forbes Silver Company; this is quite typical of their silverplate goods.

posted 11-13-2003 08:47 AM            

Sterling is an alloy that consists of 925 parts silver to 75 parts copper. If a product is manufactured with this alloy the manufacturer in the United States will mark the item with the stamp "STERLING" or sometimes use the stamp "925" to indicate the alloy of silver used.
I would be concerned of any jeweler who would tell you that the "822" on your item indicates that it is of sterling quality.

All practical evidence says your vase is silverplate and with a patent number dating 1924.

Forbes was organized in 1894 as part of Meriden Britannia Co. I see nothing inconsistent about the markings on your vase. Rainwater does not say if and when the mark was discontinued.

Fred

posted 11-13-2003 09:08 AM            

The Forbes Silver Company was a division of Meriden Britannia Co and later a part of International Silver after 1898. Meriden and International used a wide range of names in the marketing of their products, and I don't know if Forbes ever existed as a distinct physical entity or was merely a brand. However, the name was certainly used in the 1920s.

822 is NOT a mark for sterling silver. Silver is very seldom completely pure, but mixed with a percentage of other metals such as copper to improve hardness etc. Sterling is 92.5% silver, so marks such as 925, 0.925 etc are common. In continental Europe, a lower purity is common, for example 80% in Germany and 83% in Scandinavia etc. and marked accordingly. In the United States, the sterling standard gained popularity from the mid 19th century onwards and by the 20th century was, I believe, almost universal among major manufacturers.

On your piece, as WEV points out, 822 is the pattern number - just as 4314 is the pattern number of the related piece in the other thread.

As for testing... I have a Christofle tea strainer which was similarly tested, and the seller will give me my money back if I ever prove it's not silver. However, for me, the absence of legally required official French silver hallmarks and the knowledge that Christofle (while making some silver items) mainly produces silverplate, make the jeweller's claim doubtful. Silver or plate, it was still very cheap so I have no burning desire to take my electric drill to it....