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Author Topic:   Holiday puzzle
doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 11-26-2008 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2705]

I thought I'd give folks a little puzzle to ponder while digesting the Thanksgiving fixings (at least those of us who are celebrating Thanksgiving this week).

I purchased these spoons separately at two different yard sales, and thought when I found the 2nd that I had a matching pair. One was marked Aurora on the back, and the other Rogers & Bros, but I thought perhaps the Aurora was a pattern name. But then I looked at them more closely, and found that there were a number of differences.

Unfortunately, the bird in one of the spoons is somewhat worn, but I think you can pick out the subtle differences. I have come up with 15; I will post them at the end of the weekend, but meanwhile, see how many you can find!

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 11-26-2008 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Doc!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Just some thoughts to add. Rogers did make a multi-motif pattern with birds similar to your spoons, the pattern name given is called Unique. There also was a Silver Plate company named Aurora that started in 1869 in Aurora, Ill. It eventually was taken over down the road by Rogers.

Jersey

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 11-28-2008 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if this is a valid observation, but it appears that new dies were made after a time for the pattern, and the new die maker may have had only a drawing to go by, therefore causing the differences between what are two interpretations of the same pattern.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-29-2008 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The pattern is Eastlake, from 1879. The pattern is found with many marks: Rogers and Brittin, Montgomery Ward, Anchor Rogers, Rogers and Hamilton, EC Webster and Tufts. This was a popular pattern made for many years. My guess is that it was available down until 1914. The soup ladle is fairly common, easily found, and quite attractive. IMHE, Eastlake is a fairly easy pattern to collect. There is a lot of it, usually in reasonable condition. From the shear number of servers, my guess is it was a gift item.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-29-2008 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aurora was located in Aurora IL. It ran from sometime in the 1880's until right after WW1. Very little is known about the company. The factory sat on an island in the middle of the Fox River. A flood swept all the records away.

The Aurora Historical Society has investigated the firm, and I did what I could to help. The main output was hollow ware, generally smaller table items. The styles are usually Eastlake types. Very nice, well made silver.

On flatware, there are two schools of thought. One is that their flatware was made for them by Rogers etc. Davis and Diebel state this as a fact, but I have my doubts. The other is that they bought dies from the Eastern firms when patterns were being discontinued. I lean towards that idea. From the items I have handled, there frequently is a slight difference between the Aurora and the Eastern patterns.

So, what I believe happened is that Aurora bought old dies, and had them recut slightly to make them sharper. Then produced the flatware.

Aurora seems to have been a maker of high quality, mass marketed silverplate. It seems to have been middle of the market to slightly inexpensive.

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doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 11-29-2008 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much to all, and in particular to Dale for the information, including the pattern name. I am interested in the idea of the die being "recut"; how would this be done exactly?

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doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This posting started out as a quiz of sorts, but has lead in interesting directions. However, I did promise to list the answers to the 15 differences I found, so here they are:
  1. One has a monogram (OK, that one isn't really a pattern difference, so it doesn't count)

  2. The threading on the Rogers spoon has two even bands, and the Aurora spoon as a thinner inner band.

  3. The daisies at the top of the spoon are different.

  4. There is an extra little flower on the top of the Rogers spoon.

  5. Each spoon has a black-eyed susan flower but the Rogers flower is bigger.

  6. The fern leaf in the upper left side of the spoon is upright on the Aurora and drooping on the Rogers.

  7. On the outside of the upper floral bands, the Rogers has double threads and the Aurora has triple threads.

  8. The flowers in the upper bands are different.

  9. The fan on the Rogers spoon is slightly larger.

  10. The bellflowers hanging from the fan bottom are different.

  11. The bird on the Aurora is bigger than the bird on the Rogers.

  12. The branch that the birds are standing on are different.

  13. The flower stems above the bird are different.

  14. The Aurora bird's tail has longer feathers.

  15. The flower branched in the middle of the spoons have different flowers.

  16. The lower band on the Aurora handle is larger than that on the Rogers.

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doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Forgot to mention this previously, but the Rogers spoon is Rogers & Son, not Rogers & Bros. and has a patent date mark of September 21, 1880.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is that Wm Rogers & Son? D&D do not show Eastlake as having been one of their patterns.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just some additional info re the Aurora Silver Company.

Walter and David Edward Mulholland were award-winning silversmiths who bought the company in 1915. The company was called Mulholland Brothers. Then in 1924 it became the Mulholland Silver Co. It went out of business in 1934.

jersey

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doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it is Wm Rogers & Son. I was looking this afternoon on a certain silverware matching site to try to identif the pattern of other plate pieces I recently acquired, and I saw the Eastlake pattern listed under International Silver (the site lumps all prior companies absorbed into International in one location). The pattern shown there does not match these spoons.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try the same search & look for the pattern Unique 1876.

Jersey

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dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 11-30-2008 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Turner shows the pattern as Eastlake under Holmes & Edwards, under Wm. Rogers Mfg. he shows a similar pattern called Lyonnaise which actually appears to be Hall, Elton & Co.'s Lyonnaise - because (if this makes any sense) in the "Variations" section, he shows four illustrations of this pattern as Lyonnaise by Wm. Rogers Mfg., which is how it shows up on the large matching service site (casserole spoon?).

~Cheryl

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