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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Silverplate Forum
 Benedict Indestructo query
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| Author | Topic: Benedict Indestructo query |
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pareidolia Posts: 4 |
posted 01-21-2009 11:56 PM
  
[26-1790] Hi, all. I'm delighted to have found this forum and am astounded by the work and dedication that have gone into building this comprehensive site. Congratulations! My main area of interest is a little off the beaten path: flip-top bowls. Most have incredibly pedestrian, inexpensively plated steel or brass lids. Only a few rise even to the level of silver plate. In particular, Marked: "Cirrus," Back stamp: Benedict Indestructo with the number 1264. Age? In researching it, I believe it might be from an American freighter that was acquired by the Dutch after World War II as a weather ship in the Arctic in 1947. However, from what I understand, the last year Benedict Indestructo was made would have been 1945. I apologize for the wretched photo of the back stamp, but hope you can make it out, and of course I'm also hoping that the numbers 1264 might be some sort of date code? So these are my questions, if you please:
I apologize that I'm not a silver collector and probably amount to something of a hit-and-run visitor, but it is wonderful to be part of this group nevertheless and to know where to come for reference in the future. I simply regret that I have nothing to offer you in return! Best regards, ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 01-22-2009 12:38 AM
Very impressive site Susan. Wish we had more non-commercial collectors who are just out to show their treasures. Wonderful work. I hope some people here are motivated to do something similar. Can I date the Benedict Industructo mark? No, I can't. From the way it is done, it appears to be from the 20's onward. Rainwater found that Benedict was 'out of business' in 1953, which really doesn't tell us much. The silver companies had a bad habit of making huge runs of their more popular products, filling their wholesaler pipeline with years and years worth of things and then going out of business. They also had a practice of assigning their marks and products to other companies, called the 'succesor'. Given Benedict's location, Oneida is the likely one. The Oneida marks are amazingly complicated. And no on has ever tried to sort out their commercial stamps. Oneida also had the very bad habit of procuing things using marks of long gone companies. International did the same thing. The last year made and the last year sold are very different things in silverplate circles. The companies would produce huge runs and sell things for decades. This was particularly true for commercial items because availability had to be on the order of 40 years. Reed & Barton offered its commercial Tiger Lily pattern for almost a century. Looking at the piece, my guess is the indestructo line began in the 20's and was available into the early 70's. Beyond that I don't know. It could be still being made by Oneida or some Asian succesor. Question 2: yes we see this all the time. IP: Logged |
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silverhunter Posts: 704 |
posted 01-22-2009 03:52 AM
Nice to get information together with questions from new members! About ships it's always nice to have some cargo, like you mentioned in your topic. I love research also about ships history and the information what I can give about the s.s. Cirrus.(short version) The ship was originally a American navy escort ship and they rebuild it into a weather station. Several nations are helping control the weather by weather stations.(On land or at sea). This ship would make a total 163 journeys. Two photo's included one about the S.S.Cirrus and the locations by the weather stations. You can copy the photo if you find it interesting of course! Personal I always like history behind the silver items when names can be solved or pictures tell background information. So success with the hobby. IP: Logged |
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pareidolia Posts: 4 |
posted 01-22-2009 09:07 AM
Thanks, all, for your kind welcome. I do apologize for my slack attention to your guidelines and very much appreciate your thorough replies. And thanks especially for the photos related to the Cirrus. I will certainly hang onto them and put this one on the "likely identified" shelf -- which of course only exists in my own mind! With the Internet ever expanding, I've found, as I'm sure you have, that it's always a good practice to revisit my web searches periodically to see what else has popped up. All the best, IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-22-2009 01:52 PM
Here is a translation of a Dutch page on weather ships that contains some information and additional images of the S S CIRRUS, which was a converted WWII US Navy Frigate, in service as a weather ship in Arctic waters from from 1950 - 1970, late for the date you attribute to the piece.: IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-22-2009 02:03 PM
Without direct provenance I would suggest that the link to the ship is quite possible, but I would put a question mark by it in your notes and say it is equally likely (or perhaps even more likely) that could also be from a hotel, restaurant, bar, club, or even a company of that name that used it in their dining rooms. Normally silverware from ships includes the ship prefix S.S. or H.M.S. or R.M.S or such in front of the ships name since the ship owners were very proud of their ship's full designation. You also often see an indication of the ship's owners such as White Star Line or the like with perhaps additional initials or a small pennant shape with their logo. IP: Logged |
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pareidolia Posts: 4 |
posted 01-22-2009 03:39 PM
Excellent point, in as much as ships' names actually begin alphabetically with S.S. and not, in this case, Cirrus. I have looked high and low for restaurants and hotels, rooms and clubs, etc. with this name, and the best I've come up with is one obscure reference for what must have been a very short-lived airline in the 20s and a Cirrus company that made motors and engines for planes, boats and even (recently) Chrysler cars. So yes, it is quite a question mark with many qualifiers! IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 01-22-2009 07:06 PM
Hello & Welcome to the Forums. You may want to ck out this former post Benedict Indestructo Silver Hope this helps. Jersey IP: Logged |
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pareidolia Posts: 4 |
posted 01-22-2009 07:58 PM
Yes, thank you. I had seen that post and that was what I based my initial assumption on: that 1945 was the end of Benedict Indestructo and therefore a transfer to the Dutch in 1947 and subsequent name change to Cirrus were too late to have occurred under the Benedict Indestructo umbrella. IP: Logged |
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