posted 01-27-2009 02:05 PM            

In "An old spoon" (New Members Post Here), Blakstone writes about the "mark � �10� � was the mark used on silver of the second standard of 10 penningen or .833." and "These marks were instituted by the King of Holland (Napoleon's brother Louis Bonaparte) in a decree of 11 March 1807, and were used only for a very short time, from October 1807 until the late spring of 1812." The absence of hall marks could be explained by the fact that liturgical silver objects perhaps were tax-free.In Prussia they were. (Rosenberg: Der Goldschmiede Merkzeichen III page 285, 286)

posted 01-27-2009 02:25 PM            

Aspersorium or holy water bucket. This is a container for the Holy Water that is sprinkled during aspersion rites.

posted 02-04-2009 04:51 AM            

The TIENDE PENNING was a tax measure imported by the Duke of Alva(from Spain) in the year 1569. The tax measure lead to fury under the dutch population and could be a important element for the rebelly of the dutch people in those days.

The period is called: the 80 jarige oorlog/ the eighty years of war.

Duke Alva had designed three taxes:

1. The honderste penning/ the 1/100 penning, a tax from 1% over total properties for 1%.
   
2. De Twintigste penning /the 20/100 penning,
   a tax of 5 % over the selling of properties,
   this tax was inspirated by the use of roman empire Auguste.
   
3. The Tiende Penning / the 10/100 penning
   a tax put on consumptif products, identical for Spanish countries Alcabala-tax.

The trade nation like Holland could be damaged by this tax of the Tiende Penning.

Instead of The Tiende Penning tax, there was paid a amount of two million guilders in those days(2x eighty years is 160 milion guilders) a lot of money and I wonder the amount calculated in these days?

I also wonder if the tiende penning the figure 10 good stand for a tax mark for the french king of HOLLAND and also a tax was to be paid of 10 % of the selling price of a silver object?

Also in one of my few little silver books I found some information around the period you mentioned. It's a little book called:
Zilver written by Elka Schrijver (1963).

My translation is:

From 1788 until 1807 assay bigger lions were used. In the period form 1807 until 1812 the Dutch lion was replaced by a French coronation crown into a pentagonal stamp and after 1812 Holland was split into seven departments, which resulted in the provincial marks having disappeared.

A gallic coq with the figures 1 and 2 were used in both guarantee/warrant heads by the installed assay offices. For smaller marks they used a soldier head mark. At first after 1815 the lion was used again by all assay offices in Holland and the big mark of a standing lion with the figure 1 and the little mark a walking lion with the figure 2 (after 1955 the roman figure II was used). They started in 1815 not with the letter A from the new series of year letters but continued with the letter F.

From 1815 there was decided that if a new assay office master was installated, a little sign of the year letter must be given for distinction of the marks made by his predecessor in the same year.

Hope this helps!

posted 02-04-2009 07:40 AM            

The TROY system : a traditional English weight system of great antiquity, apparently in use since long before the Norman conquest of 1066. The system is believed to be named for the French market town of Troyes, where English merchants traded at least as early as the time of Charlemagne (early ninth century). The system is based on the troy pound of 5760 grains. The pound was divided into 12 ounces (480 grains) each containing 20 pennyweight (24 grains). Apothecaries, however, divided the troy ounce into 8 drams (60 grains) each containing 3 scruples (20 grains). The origin of the troy system is not clear, but a number of scholars believe the dram corresponds to the denarius, a Roman coin that weighed about 60 English grains and (when used as a weight) was also divided into 3 scruples. The troy system was always the theoretical basis of the traditional English monetary system, in which there were 12 pence (pennies) to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound. However, in medieval England pennies did not actually weigh a pennyweight, because they were made using the tower weight system and thus weighed 22,5 grains instead of 24. In 1527, Henry VIII abolished the tower pound and made the troy system official for coinage; thereafter silver shillings weighed exactly 0,6 troy ounce. The smaller troy weights continued in common use in pharmacy and monetary affairs into the early twentieth century, but the troy pound was abolished in 1878 to avoid any commercial confusion with the avoirdupois pound. The troy system is practically obsolete today, but the prices of precious metals are still quoted by the troy ounce.
The troy and avoirdupois pounds are connected by the grain.

1 avoirdupois pound = 7000 grain (453,592 gram)
1 troy pound = 5760 grain (373,242 gram)

In the US most items of retail trade are still based on the avoirdupois system.

In Spain and Norhern Europe the 16 ounce pound was the norm,elsewhere 12- ounce.

Pound = 16 ounce = 500grams
troy pound(medicine)= 12 ounce= 373 grams

Ounce = 8 drams = 31,2 grams

Loot = 15,6 grams

Drams = (medicine)= 3 scruples = 3,9 grams

Scruples = (medicine)20 grain = 1,3 gram

Grain (Grein) = 0,065 gram.

In the meaning of 11 pennings and 5 grains(greinen), I've understood that a one penning was 83,3 gram of silver and five grains weighted 5x 3,6 grams of silver and were the basis for the alloy of 934/1000 silver.

posted 02-04-2009 08:31 AM            

Short reaction from my side about the names given to the churches in Holland, we have a lot of churches in Holland called St.Jan, for instance a cathedral in Den Bosch.
St.Jan(Baptiste?).

There are also churches located in the northern part of Belgium and named(renamed?) with St.Jan, in the period that the Vlamingen should be Dutchman. But in the 19th century endly were liberated from the dutch. The south of Belgium is Wallonie (French mother tongue)and there are some churches named by St.Jacques.

St.Jan should be named St.John and St.Jacques(more common name is sjaak(dutch) but that's no usual name for to mention a church.

The letter V stood for a U and the I for J.

And the asperge is a vegatable in Holland.
(but that is a other topic!)

Greetings silverhunter,
andre.

posted 02-04-2009 04:18 PM            

Greetings andré.