|
|
|
|
| REGISTER (click here) |
How to Post Photos
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 New members post here
 Desirable and undesirable manufacturers?
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Desirable and undesirable manufacturers? |
|
mad4silver Posts: 4 |
posted 11-10-2009 07:50 PM
  
[26-1921] Hello all! I am very excited to have found this forum, as I've recently fallen in love with sterling flatware, and would like to collect it for myself and for our kids. One thing I've started to do is to find a pattern on [online auction] that I like, and pick up a place setting for a sample of that pattern. I'm not opposed to full sets, but feel that life is too short to only have one pattern to look at! So, I'm trying to do a lot of reading and studying about it, as I want to find fairly heavy patterns and desirable patterns. It has been a bit of a problem finding candid discussions about silver online, as so many sites have to do with selling it, and of course want everything to seem great. One lady who seemed like an expert did mention "manufacturers that no one is interested in," and I would be very curious to know what those are? Are there any books that have blunt discussions about manufacturers and patterns? I did buy one book that is well-known, but while it did list a lot of patterns, it didn't really get down to the "nitty gritty." Again, I'm so glad to have found this forum, and look forward to sharing and learning. IP: Logged |
|
agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 11-10-2009 10:47 PM
Welcome Mad4silver, you seem to be on the right track. I do not have any answers, some here may, but the best way is to take your time and look at as much as possible. Also talk to as many dealers/collectors as possible and remember some know what they are talking about and others do not. If you can not get to shows, shops or good flea markets then that big auction site is a good place to look but there is nothing like handling to get a feel for wieght and to really see detail. The "manufacturers that no one is interested in," comment is all about resale and ignores that some buy things because they just like them. But do remember there are thousands of patterns and you do not have to rush into this. In fact the longer you take and the more you learn the less you will regret later when you look back at your beginer mistakes. Again there is no rush that pattern will come around again some day maybe even when the price of silver is back at pre 2000 prices! IP: Logged |
|
Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 11-11-2009 11:51 PM
Hi there, First let me say that choosing silver is personal. If the silver is stamped "STERLING" it usually is sterling silver. Manufacturers all did quality work, or no one would buy their product. The rules are to buy what you like, and to do that you have to see a lot of silver. What you should do, is go visit several antiques shows, and shops, and look at and feel silver place settings. 2 dimensional representations in books are only a starting place. When you find something you like, make notes, and compare prices with those on line. Try to get a money back guarantee. I do it for my customers. I hope this helps a little bit. Marc IP: Logged |
|
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 11-12-2009 06:00 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of silver. Lots of wise people in this group, and amazing amounts of information. As a museum curator, one of my greatest treasures is an extremely rare art deco coffee set designed in 1929 by Towle Silversmiths. I remember the dealer who sold it to us wryly noted that several other museums had passed it over because they couldn't bring themselves to be excited by Towle. Museums, like many collectors, can sometimes have a prejudice against all but the big names (i.e. Tiffany, Gorham, and a few others depending on which museum and what object). Few museums, and few collectors, collect silver broadly to understand it in its many facets. This, of course, leaves more for you! IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 11-12-2009 10:14 PM
Hi and let me add my welcome! You have found the right forum to talk about silver without the prices/values prejudices. We are all collectors and appreciators of silver and that is what we like to chat about here. I think your plan to buy a place setting of different patterns and makers is a great idea. There are even some of us here who like to have place settings where every utensil is a different pattern. There are just so many wonderful patterns and you can get quite an artistic and chic look by doing this, especially if you put some thought into choosing each utensil. Those snooty folks over on that forum who said some patterns and manufacturers were undesireable do not know what they are talking about. Silver patterns and styles regularly go into and out of current fashion and demand goes up and down over the decades. What was considered rubbish 20 years ago is considered most desireable today. Forget about what anyone tries to tell you about different manufacturers and patterns and buy what your eye tells you is appealing. It is your dinner table and that means that you get to be the sole arbiter of what will be used for silverware. Empower yourself to be the one who decides and you will have a wonderful time collecting and using your flatware and holloware. Spend time going to antique shows and antique silver shops and learn what the different patterns and makers look like and feel like and choose what you like. Pay attention to the size of the flatware as some will be rather small and some will seem oversized and some will be in the middle. Think about actually using it and choose the patterns that come in the size you like. IP: Logged |
|
jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 11-13-2009 03:25 PM
Hello & welcome to the Forum! I like to keep in mind something I was told years ago when I was looking to purchase art works. Buy what you like first! If in fact it may be out of your price range, save up rather than settle for something less affordable or desirable! Mixing & matching is great fun & have a history behind each piece, such as Mfg. Etc. I do that every holiday when my best pieces are out & I remind my kids & do a Q&A with them! Enjoy! Jersey IP: Logged |
|
Postnikov Posts: 133 |
posted 11-17-2009 11:54 AM
Hi - As a seasoned collector of silver I can explain what is the meaning behind "manufacturers that no one is interested in". As a newcomer you collect everything, with little knowledge. After some time you learn more an more and distinguish between common mass production and outstanding/rare quality. This is always connected with names/manufacturers. If it is quality you seek than your search is narrowed to this names/makers - all the other names/makers are not of much interest for you. Now it depends on you: what is your personal taste, what can you afford,how much time you want to invest, how many sacrifices you want to make, etc. My advice: start slow, buy less, learn, touch, read and communicate much. Much luck and happy hunting! Regards IP: Logged |
|
mad4silver Posts: 4 |
posted 11-24-2009 12:13 PM
THANK YOU so much to all who replied to my newbie questions and comments....I appreciate so much all the input, and believe that the next step needs to be finding some shows. My first few purchases have been a learning experience in and of themselves. Most of them I've been happy with, but one stands out as a disappointment: the pattern was a pretty one, and I bought on impulse. When it arrived, it looked like it had been dipped, and was also fairly lightweight. The word "sterling" had also been almost buffed out of the back of the salad fork. Anyway, I am having a great new adventure, and thanks again to all the fine folks here who are so generous with their knowledge and comments! IP: Logged |
|
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 11-25-2009 12:41 AM
I would not suggest avoiding manufacturers as much as avoiding items produced during certain periods. International Silver had severe quality problems from the late 30's into the late 60's. Production from these years needs to be carefully inspected before purchasing. Most of the major makers had some sort of QA problems during the period late 40's into the 60's, which coincides with the decline of the silverware market. I have handled sets from that period where the weight between the heaviest and lightest of an item varied by 30%. The two major makers with the most reliable QA seem to be Tiffany and Oneida. Pairpoint and Tufts are known for the quality of their design. And the erratic qualtiy of their products. I have had items produced by these companies that could not be replated: there was silver on them but it would not take a current. That's my take on this question. IP: Logged |
|
Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 11-25-2009 01:24 AM
Welcome to the forums. A lot has already been said and I agree. One thing that I learned during my collection is to find out what you like style. I collect a pattern made by many different silversmith from late 1700's until 1900hundred. When I was not aware I bought pieces from the entire period. But soon I discovered the difference between "Empire" and "Empire style" Even that it is same pattern - today I only buy when it is empire (also in time) those pieces represent "hand made" pieces compared to later times "industrial manufacture". So I became more selective - when observed from distance you do not see the difference - but when you hold the pieces and compare they represent a world of difference. IP: Logged |
|
mad4silver Posts: 4 |
posted 11-27-2009 11:21 PM
I was completely unaware of manufacturers' quality issues during those decades, so thanks. This is the kind of info that seems hard to find; I have a lot of research to do, obviously. I'm not to the level or experience where I've seen a quality hand-made piece of silver, but hope to before long. I did notice on a Francis I fork that I'd bought, that the "fancy" part at the bottom felt rough on the edge. My mom has some old Francis I, and I'll bet that it doesn't feel so rough. IP: Logged |
|
Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 11-28-2009 01:38 AM
Francis I is an example of the issues in collection older silver. The dealers who taught me insisted that this is actually 3 distinct patterns. The first dies were for the original run, which lasted into the 30's. At some point in the 30's, the dies were completely replaced. New ones were cut and varied slightly from the original run. When dies are recut, they invariably become somewhat less ornate. Or, at least, that is the received wisdom. Then in either the late 70's or early 80's, yet another set of dies were cut. When looked at clinically, and with a strong magnifier and a scale, the differences are clear. With Francis I, the differences are clearer when looking at the tea set. The pre WW1 set is noticably different from the current model.
IP: Logged |
|
mad4silver Posts: 4 |
posted 12-04-2009 02:24 PM
Dale, thank you very much for the Francis I information. I knew that the latest things weren't as desirable, but had not heard about the die situation. Am looking forward to comparing a place setting I have with my mother's. IP: Logged |
|
Pritchard Posts: 8 |
posted 01-20-2010 01:20 PM
There is no set rule regarding which firms are to be collected and which are to be shunned. It is the workmanship, quality and originality of the design of the silver that should be used to properly judge a piece of silver for desirability. There are of course certain names that inspire people to part with large sums of money purely to have a piece from a specific maker but all large firms had their introductory lines and thus we encounter more often than not, uninspired pieces made by Cartier and Tiffany & Co. and from time to time from the firm of Fabergé. On the other hand there are many amazing pieces of antique Indian silver in the Kutch and Kashmir styles which are unidentified as to their makers but still worthy of a place in a museum exhibition. IP: Logged |
|
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 |
posted 02-07-2010 02:28 PM
Welcome to the forums, mad4silver. It is great to have a new convert to this wild and wonderful world of silver. Pursuing this passion as a newbie is not as easy as it was before online sales became the norm. Silver is tactile. You have to take it in your hands and feel it and study it to fully appreciate it. Go to as many shows and shops as you can and handle as much silver as you can to learn it's attributes and your preferences. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress! IP: Logged |
|
SilverToGo Posts: 13 |
posted 10-18-2010 03:19 PM
In the topic: Desirable and undesirable manufacturers -
quote: Your quote is very curious to me. Shall I assume from your comment that there are enough times that a piece is marked "sterling" when it is not, that it is something to be wary of? Hmm Perhaps this should have been a new thread . . can someone move it for me, please? IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 10-18-2010 06:25 PM
When I used to sell, I would price items based on design and quality, not on signatures. Unfortunately, only the "big names" sold. If I priced similar Shiebler and F. Whiting pins at the same price point, for example, the Shiebler would sell and the F. Whiting would not. Sometimes I have noticed unsigned items going for more than items signed by "undesirable" makers. The bright side for me is that I can find great pieces for myself, at low prices, because they are not signed by "desirable" makers. I'm sure if a prominent museum mounted an exhibit of Howard Sterling Co. jewelry, the prices would suddenly skyrocket... IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 10-18-2010 06:37 PM
Unfortunately there are some bad people out there who make a quick buck by making forgeries including who make silver plated objects and stamping them sterling, or who take authentic old silver and add markings of big name makers that command higher prices. The only way you can protect yourself is to buy from well established reputable dealers who offer a written long-term guarantee on authenticity, or to learn about silver so you can protect yourself from the crooks. Fortunately there is plenty of honest silver around, but if you are going to be getting into anything higher priced or really high priced then you have to look at each item with the expectation that it is not right and needs to be proven to be real rather than the other way around. To say it simply, the higher the price, the greater the burden of proof will be on both the seller and you the buyer to prove it is real. IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |