posted 07-10-2010 06:10 PM            

Hi

I am new to this forum I have been employed as a Handforger of Sterling Silver Flatware since 1991 first by C.W.Fletchers Silversmiths who are now called Fletcher Robinson they supply Handforged flatware to many companies around the world we are owned by James Robinson

posted 07-10-2010 07:02 PM            

In the meantime perhaps you would be kind enough to answer 2 questions I have if it's not too much trouble.

1. What are the current hallmarks used?
   
2. Does anyone yet know where/ or to whom your Worlds Largest Spoon went?

Jersey

posted 07-10-2010 09:06 PM            

Thank you for your kind welcomes

In regards to your question the makers mark is FR It has been this since 2002 before that it was C.W.F I will upload pictures as soon as I have figured it out

The 29.5" Basting spoon forged by myself was bought by a London retailer who had taken the commission from a customer in the middle east the name was never revealed

I have pictures of it been forged which I will upload as soon as I figure it out

Kind Regards

posted 07-10-2010 09:13 PM            

Think I figured how to upload pictures

posted 07-10-2010 09:24 PM            

That worked so now a few pictures of the basting spoon been forged

Kind Regards

posted 07-10-2010 09:32 PM            

Thank you so much for your response.
Are you in fact David Baggaley?

posted 07-10-2010 09:41 PM            

@ Jersey yes I am David Baggaley

posted 07-11-2010 10:19 AM            

Love your photos, good work!

Do you also have your hallmark on any of the pieces you are involved with?
Do you come from a family of silversmiths?
What are your other interests?

Thank you!

Jersey

posted 07-11-2010 02:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PhilO:
Interesting to see the family resemblance of Fletcher Robinson's sponsor's mark to that of the parent company, James Robinson:

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Hi Phil0

Yes the mark is very similar the letters are the same type. When we first started using the new mark their was a few accidents with James Robinson's work been marked with the Fletcher Robinson mark it was always picked up on at inspection luckily

Kind Regards

posted 07-11-2010 02:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by adelapt:
Welcome to the forum, and thank you for the photos. As someone who uses hand forged flatware (old and new) daily, I really appreciate the difference of it. It's great to know that the tradition is being kept up (just).
Cheers,
Adelapt

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Hi Adelapt

Thanks for the nice comments its true their are very few company's doing handforged Flatware. hopefully the ones that are left can survive the current economic climate

Kind Regards

posted 07-11-2010 02:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FredZ:
David,
That is one BIG spoon! I see you hot forge like most Brits do. I can see the advantage on such heavy stock. Makes for faster metal movement. Glad to see you here on the forum.
Fred

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Hi Fred

Yes all the work is forged hot from a salt spoon to the largest piece but we do the final stage cold

Kind Regards

posted 07-11-2010 03:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jersey:
Hello again David!
A pleasure to meet you!

Love your photos, good work!

Do you also have your hallmark on any of the pieces you are involved with?
Do you come from a family of silversmiths?
What are your other interests?

Thank you!

Jersey

---

Hi Jersey

I do have my own hallmark D.B.S but it is for my own use its never used by fletchers just my own company

My Dad was a silver polisher when I was younger but he left that job then worked in the steel industry then as spray painter

posted 07-11-2010 08:29 PM            

As my son would say "Rock On"!
You'll do well.

posted 07-15-2010 06:26 PM            

It is great to see a spoon being made the “proper” way – hot! I was asked to copy a 16” stuffing spoon a few years ago and after making the stake for the bowl I got an ingot weighing 10 oz. 6”x 1 ¼” x ¼”. I thought it would be a long job but was surprised that because the ingot was so big it held the heat longer and heated back up very quickly and it seemed for so large a spoon to go quickly. I am no the fastest so I was happy that it came in at about 11 hours. Now after 10 or so and 2 large ladles that I have also done recently, they take me 7 hours and weigh 7 oz.

Can I ask the ingot weight and dimensions and I think the article said how long it took to make but I do not remember. Any other insight you would like to throw in I would (and I’m sure all here) be very interested, like how you made the stake for it and cranked the handle etc.

Again it is a pleasure to see this, I am a fan of good old English spoon making which has such a tradition. That makes me think of another question – who taught you and who taught him?? I am sure in the firm but is the history ever discussed?

posted 07-17-2010 01:38 PM            

I will add more details later

posted 07-17-2010 05:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by agleopar:

Can I ask the ingot weight and dimensions and I think the article said how long it took to make but I do not remember. Any other insight you would like to throw in I would (and I’m sure all here) be very interested, like how you made the stake for it and cranked the handle etc.

Again it is a pleasure to see this, I am a fan of good old English spoon making which has such a tradition. That makes me think of another question – who taught you and who taught him?? I am sure in the firm but is the history ever discussed?

Sorry to go on but I have just seen the post so I am late to the conversation.
All the best, Rob

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Hi agleopar

The weight of the ingot was 49oz and it took 21 hours to forge it became quite a danger when it was red hot so i gave it a lot of respect before this the largest item i had forged was a soup ladle these are 13 inches long and take about 1.5 hours to forge we did spend quite a bit of time talking about it. We made the die for the tail and punch for the bowl the bowling punch was made from a block of wood and cast in steel it was then bowled in a drop stamp one funny point was when they polished it they had to put the handle out of the window.

in regards to the history

Nicholas Bartholomew worked circa 1550
Patrick Brue apprenticed 1562
John Round apprenticed 1589
Henry Good apprenticed 1619
Richard Stonehill apprenticed 1633
John Smith apprenticed 1646
Walter Bradley apprenticed 1682
Benjamin Watts apprenticed 1691
Joseph Smith apprenticed 1700
Ebenezer Coker apprenticed 1728
Thomas Chawner apprenticed 1754
George Smith apprenticed 1765
George Smith Jr. apprenticed 1790
Francis Higgin Jr. apprenticed 1805
Francis Higgins and Sons successor to above
W.H.Brewis and Co. est. 1898 formerly a partner of above
C.W.Fletcher (Silversmiths) took control 1907
James Robinson Inc took control 2002

I was apprenticed at 16 in 1991 by Colin Wallace who was 60 and was fletcher's only remaining forger at that time. I was his second attempt as the first one left. Colin also taught Robert Allen after me and then retired aged 72 he started work for them aged 14 he was apprenticed to Charlie Mcnair who had been taught by Charles
William fletcher

posted 07-17-2010 05:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by blackbird:
David, I worked at James Robinson for seven years 1998-2005. During that time they became full owners of the workshop in Sheffield, which was a really big deal for the store. While I worked mostly with the antique jewelry, I also had the privilege of selling Fletcher's outstanding hand-forged flatware. During that time, we also sold handmade reproduction silver trays and salvers, and I heard that it was getting harder to find flat-hammerers (is this a term?). I forget who made the trays, but they were/are of incredible quality.
Anyway, great to 'meet' a Fletcher's alumnus.
Jackie

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Hi Jackie

It sure is a small world and its very nice to hear from yourself. I only ever spoke to eddie joan and norma and that was only when they visited probably every 2years or so.

What did you do after leaving james robinson

Kind Regards

David

posted 07-17-2010 06:53 PM            

The last questions (I promise), the finished weight and why 29”?Do you use Britannia regularly?

The history of the firm is fascinating, the Chawner name being one I have seen on spoons. Your apprenticeship to Colin Wallace and lineage of masters has become a rarity – I know you are young but is there talk of you training the next generation?

Thank you for the replies and your time. If you ever come to the states please consider a visit with some US smiths… all 5 of us!

posted 07-18-2010 06:37 PM            

I don't remember what the finished weight was but I will try to find out for you

The size was requested by the customer the bowl also had to hold exactly one pint it was made in Britannia as that's what they had asked for

We normally work with sterling but if the customer requests something else we try to oblige

There are currently no plans that I know of to start training the next generation. I just hope history does not repeat its self or worse

Thanks for your invite that would be awesome one day

I have a question also how many hand-forgers have you come across in the USA and England or other country's and how many forge hot versus cold do you or anyone else know the answer to this

Kind Regards

David

posted 07-21-2010 02:31 PM            

As the trade is now almost extinct in the US, by that I mean almost all the hollowware and cutlery firms are out of business and there is only one doing hand forged flatware.

There are 3 shops that I know of, the only one still a business as opposed to an individual is Old Newbury Crafters in Amesbury, MA (Middle Tom on the forums works there). Then the others are Peter Ericson in Gardiner, MA, he is the grandson of a flatware man who worked for the Stone shop (closed in the 50’s). The last is Randy Stromsoe, who took over Porter Blanchards shop in CA.

There are other individuals sprinkled around the country, some are making very nice flatware, others are making very basic stuff… None that I know of are hot forging and my personal theory is that those who do it cold learned from a Scandinavian master. There were a great deal of very good silversmiths teaching in this country in the 50’s who were from that part of the world. Again my theory and not scientific but the only logic I can come up with…

I think I have jokingly challenged Middle Tom to a race hot vs. cold but if I had you as my contestant it sounds as though it would be over before it started!

So maybe in the future you could help me get my times for a tablespoon down to under a half hour for the forging?

posted 07-21-2010 02:57 PM            

Who is the market for hand forged flatware? Are there many customers or just a few die hard collectors? How do you market and sell your creations? Just wondering how the trade is holding up.

posted 07-21-2010 04:44 PM            

As for hand made holloware and individual artist craftsmen the Society of American Silversmiths has anywhere to 100-150 current or recent members and there are another 200 or so out there. But to me that is scraping the bottom of the barrel when you compare it to England and 3-4,000 smiths still!

posted 07-23-2010 07:13 PM            

Welcome to this discussion. I just came across your thread.

I am Geoff Blake and go by middletom here. I have worked at Old Newbury Crafters for nearly forty years. We forge cold, except that punch and soup ladles are hammered hot the first couple stages because of the amount of silver to be moved.

Agleopar is a thorn in my side because he is under the mistaken impression that he could beat me if he were hammering hot and I cold. As I mentioned in another thead today, Arthur Stone, from whom our
techniques descend was taught in England, from which he emmigrated in the later nineteenth century. If he brought flatware skills with him, then he learned cold forging, though he may have picked that up after coming here.(I want you to know that I am kidding about Agleopar being a thorn. He is a great person and fine craftsman.)

I enjoyed seeing the pictures of your forging of that great spoon. Wonderful! I've not done anything larger that a punch ladle, but if requested, I'm sure I could go larger.

My best to you. It good to see someone so young being involved in the craft.

posted 07-24-2010 04:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by agleopar:
Thanks David for the info and since the request for one pint bowl size seems to have been the overriding design request it makes me think that this is going to be used for some strange drinking game?? Just kidding but it would be fun to know for who, what for and why this was commissioned.

As the trade is now almost extinct in the US, by that I mean almost all the hollowware and cutlery firms are out of business and there is only one doing hand forged flatware.

There are 3 shops that I know of, the only one still a business as opposed to an individual is Old Newbury Crafters in Amesbury, MA (Middle Tom on the forums works there). Then the others are Peter Ericson in Gardiner, MA, he is the grandson of a flatware man who worked for the Stone shop (closed in the 50’s). The last is Randy Stromsoe, who took over Porter Blanchards shop in CA.

There are other individuals sprinkled around the country, some are making very nice flatware, others are making very basic stuff… None that I know of are hot forging and my personal theory is that those who do it cold learned from a Scandinavian master. There were a great deal of very good silversmiths teaching in this country in the 50’s who were from that part of the world. Again my theory and not scientific but the only logic I can come up with…

I think I have jokingly challenged Middle Tom to a race hot vs. cold but if I had you as my contestant it sounds as though it would be over before it started!

So maybe in the future you could help me get my times for a tablespoon down to under a half hour for the forging?

That finished weight on the big spoon interests me, even just a guess.
All the best, Rob

---

Hi agleopar

I agree it must have been for a drinking game no pub should be without one lol

I did wonder myself but have never been told the name of the end user or its purpose I have searched the internet many times to see if its out there but as of yet no luck

In regards to the trade of handforged Silver flatware its looking a little thin on the ground when I first started work The company was under the impression that there where no others left the advent of the internet has changed that belief but its looking like the craft of hand-forging sterling silver flatware is close to extinction

A table spoon under half an hour no problem

The weight for the large spoon finished was 37oz

Kind Regards

David

posted 07-24-2010 05:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale:
Welcome to the forum. And thanks for the wonderfully enlightening posts.

Who is the market for hand forged flatware? Are there many customers or just a few die hard collectors? How do you market and sell your creations? Just wondering how the trade is holding up.

Not training young smiths is sad.

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The market for Hand-forged flatware is mainly the top end of the market the rich n famous we do have a few collectors but they are normally buying antique hand forged flatware and just can't find that missing piece to complete the set so settle for a antique reproduction we also do commissions for designers who design the flatware and then we make it for them.

I agree that not training the next generation of Hand forgers is sad but they need to be selling more to be able to do this but we are both quite young so there's a bit of time yet .

At what point am I able to post in other area of this forum? as there are few I Would like to join in with but can't.

posted 07-24-2010 05:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FredZ:
Randy Stomsoe recently completed place settings for 12 for a client. I have not heard from Peter Erickson and I suspect he still gets the odd commission. Baby spoons and sets are always in demand for the descriminating client.

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I Have not heard of peter erickson is he in the usa?

posted 07-24-2010 05:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale:
a shop in South America offers to reproduce antique silver to order. From the pictures at their site, they do excellent work. While the tableware makers are in decline, other venues are viable.

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Thats intresting what the name of the company or web addy?

posted 07-24-2010 05:28 PM            

It nice to meet another Handforger your company was the first one I came across whenI started searching

Your recent post about your company needing young blood is very sad and is one our company faced back in 1991 My master Colin Wallace was 60 and also wanted to retire luckily it worked out for them
I wish you and your company well and hope you find someone this trade is too small to lose another

Kind Regards

posted 07-25-2010 04:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale:
The discussion on the South American company is here (Company in Peru). One great difficulty we face here is that we do not link to commercial enterprises, which makes discussing the current state of the trade very difficult.

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Hi Dale

Thank you for that information I managed to find the web site from that thanks they make antique reproduction holloware I could not find any flatware

Kind Regards

David

posted 07-25-2010 05:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by agphile:
As a user rather than a maker of hand-forged flatware I have been keeping out of this thread, but thought I ought just to mention that in England Wakely and Wheeler,formerly of London but now in a workshop in the countryside just outside, continue to produce flatware. When I visited getting on for a year ago Jeff Francis, the spoonmaker there, had an apprentice who was coming to the end of his time and must by now be qualified. The apprentice was planning to make a giant spoon for his "masterpiece", but I suspect not as giant as yours.

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Hi

Thanks for that I met jeff a few years ago we helped them with a project that they needed dies for from what I remember they forge cold

Kind Regards

posted 07-27-2010 09:19 PM            

David, thank you for the finished weight of the big spoon it now has an image in my mind that as a maker and collector of spoons I just like knowing... I can now say with real authority that I know of the largest spoon in the world! And I know who the maker is!!
Cheers, Rob

posted 08-05-2010 10:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hand-forger:

At what point am I able to post in other area of this forum? as there are few I Would like to join in with but can't.

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Hand-forger,
This is the answer to your question.

There is a protocol for elevating the posting privileges of a New Member to the rest of the SSF public forums.

Please read the SSF Guidelines and it will provide you with the necessary info.

posted 08-06-2010 04:58 PM            

I've seen a copy of the Harvard film showing the making of a spoon and the person in the film used the very same techniques we at ONC do. But, FredZ sent me a description of flatware making written by Mrs. Stone and she described forging with the peening end of the hammer head rather than the broad face. It appears two different styles were used at Stone's shop. Fred also told me that Peter Ericson forges with the peening end. I don't know why the differences except perhaps there were, at different times, masters of flatware who came from different schools.

Well' those are just some thoughts and I may be out in left field.

posted 08-11-2010 04:37 PM            

I wonder if there is available a source of information either here or in England that could shed some light on the why of the different techniques. There must have been some things written down over the years, but I would not know how to go about getting at it.

posted 08-12-2010 12:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by middletom:
Agleopar,
You could be right. Stone worked at Durgin (sp.?) when first in this country and I seem to recall reading somewhere that he and George Blanchard worked together at Frank Smith silver company. Perhaps Blanchard was the actual flatware man in the shop whereas Stone's training was in hollowware and chasing.

I've seen a copy of the Harvard film showing the making of a spoon and the person in the film used the very same techniques we at ONC do. But, FredZ sent me a description of flatware making written by Mrs. Stone and she described forging with the peening end of the hammer head rather than the broad face. It appears two different styles were used at Stone's shop. Fred also told me that Peter Ericson forges with the peening end. I don't know why the differences except perhaps there were, at different times, masters of flatware who came from different schools.

Well' those are just some thoughts and I may be out in left field.

middletom

---

Hey Tom et all - I've been trying to figure out how to respond to this thread and post a few pics for days now.
You are right ... Arther Stone and George Blanchard were both working in the Durgin and Smiths shops together. When Arthur opened his own studio, George followed him and headed up the flatware department while Arthur focused on the hollowware department.

This has been a fun thread to follow. Hope you are all doing well! Randy

posted 08-12-2010 01:59 PM            

Where do they go when I press send?

Your flatware tread has been fun to read and I am trying to jump in. R

[Thread continues here]