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 Beautiful and rare Shiebler Berry Spoon
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| Author | Topic: Beautiful and rare Shiebler Berry Spoon |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 03-17-2013 10:40 PM
  
[26-2379] Got this piece today from a small auction ... Couldn't be happier. Will upload some more photos after it shows up in the mail and gets a nice cleaning. I've only seen one similar berry spoon in a silver museum before, attaching a photo of that one as well. I can only hope it cleans up as nice. The only difference is the museum piece features a Hermes like head on the top whereas mine features a bearded man. Measures approx 10 and 3/8 inches and weighs 200 grams. Retailed by the Galt Brothers (Wash D.C) around 1880? IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 03-17-2013 11:03 PM
There is something about Shiebler that turns me on like no other silver designs. I don't know if it is my old hippy mind set attracted to the free form design or that it just stands out from all others both contemporary to it and otherwise? Nice find and I admit I am jealous! IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 03-18-2013 12:08 AM
Here's the other two items I scooped up today. The first is a Wood & Hughes beautiful hammered spoon with a similar motif as the Shiebler. Does anyone know the name of this pattern? 7" long about 35 grams. The last piece is more of mystery. It was advertised as 18th c. French. Research, however, determined the inlaid coin is a William III shilling dating from about 1690-1700. Can't wait to get it any check out the additional rim hallmarks to try to match it w/ a maker. Believe it is a tasting ladle. Approx 5.5" and 35 grams. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 03-18-2013 01:20 PM
Great finds, Fish! That was a period when people were enchanted with archeology (well, the ladle is earlier, I think). You can see the influence of archeology in these pieces. I love that all three of your pieces incorporate (images of) coins or medals. IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 03-18-2013 07:28 PM
Yes, I love the design of the pieces. Etruscan/Homeric styled pieces have always been amongst my very favorites. Having them applied to a hammered piece is icing on the cake. One of the things I really like about Shiebler is how his works almost look like they have mistakes with the odd indents and inward cuts, but in reality they are a great (intentional) subtle touch that brings them to life and in today's times make them feel modern even though they are 130~ years old. Very excited about the English ladle too, it is the oldest piece of silver I have ever purchased. I knew it was almost certainly English after seeing the reverse of the coin but it took some time to track down it's date, William III only had shillings made in his name for 6 years from 1695-1701. In taking a closer look, the photos show it sates to 16 something and I can faintly make out a Chester mint mark on the front of the coin. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 03-19-2013 03:17 PM
I am not certain the ladle will prove to be English. It will be a bit younger than the inserted coin, perhaps last third of the 18th century or early 19th century. Coin inserts are most commonly found in 18th century English punch ladles that have whalebone (baleen) handles, and I haven’t seen one like yours. Foreign as well as English coins are found in them so I guess an English coin could equally find its way into an overseas ladle. If there are no English hallmarks on the ladle I would be inclined to wonder whether it was American made, but others may know better. I would certainly be interested to see better photos of the ladle, including the back of the handle and its attachment to the bowl, if you are able to get round to it. In any event, an interesting find. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-20-2013 04:58 PM
I agree that the coin would almost certainly be much older than the ladle. Whether it has any hallmarks will help with the date and country of origin, but I also agree that English may not be likely. 18th century would seem about right, though it could also be 19th century. As Polly said, there was a relatively long interest in the past (still is) with many amateur 'antiquarians' digging up artifacts (and making modern archaeology very difficult) so a design that was made with an old coin to suggest a link with the past would have been a good marketing approach. After all, why would someone want a current coin made into their ladle? [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 03-20-2013).] IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 03-20-2013 09:25 PM
Aren't those hall marks on the lip of the bowl to the bottom right of the handle? IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 03-21-2013 12:46 AM
Yes, those are rim hallmarks. To be clear, I just purchased these through an out of state auction and these photos were taken from their site (the reason there are odd lines through the bottom which are blocking their website name). They have been paid for in full and I plan on taking and uploading better quality pictures of the two spoons and ladle/it's hallmarks as soon as they show up in the mail. Hopefully that will be in about a week or so. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-21-2013 02:14 PM
Thanks, I very much look forward to seeing the hallmarks so we can come up with a more definitive dating. I think these all interesting pieces of silver. IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 04-03-2013 01:35 AM
Just wanted to give a quick update before bed. Got all the items in the mail finally today. The shiebler berry spoon is very hefty and impressive in size and construction.
The coin is dated 1696 and from Chester. The maker mark is the most worn, it is three letters with periods seperating them and the only one I can definitely make out is the third, which is a T. Second letter appears to be an H or M. Will get photos up tomorrow. The piece was obviously well used with the inside of the bowl having the coin much more worn down than the reverse. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 04-03-2013 11:13 AM
Photos of the marks would be great. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 04-04-2013 09:07 AM
A 1697 or 1702 Scottish ladle would be a rare find but please also look at the overall shape of the ladle and its handle. I say this because coin insets are normally found in punch or toddy ladles that have whalebone (baleen) or turned wood handles. The junction with the handle was a weak point so there are examples around with replacement handles. Pieces repaired in this way have their own interest as part of the social history of use and care of an item over the generations, of course. An original handle of 1697 or 1702 would probably have a trefid (lobed) or dognose terminal rather than a rounded one. However, I shouldn’t jump to conclusions before seeing your better photos and before you have had a chance to decipher the marks further. IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 04-07-2013 08:28 AM
I apologize for the delay, had some distractions come up. Here are the photos. I'm fairly certain now the ladle is probably much newer than I had previously mentioned. Still can't identify the date definitively and am clueless on the maker, however. Thanks for any help in advance. All comments are welcomed. IP: Logged |
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 04-07-2013 08:29 AM
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FishW Posts: 21 |
posted 04-07-2013 08:39 AM
Photos are showing up small for some reason, please advise if I am doing something wrong moderator. I had uploaded them for forum size like my last ones but this time followed the image posting instructions not linking the urls and just doing the [img] and [/img] encapsulation and it appears you can't open them to view them larger? Should I reupload like I did previously with the urls still attached? Thanks IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 04-07-2013 01:06 PM
Afraid I can’t help with the technicalities of getting your pictures the right size. Based on what I can make out at present and what you have said earlier I would suggest you look at Edinburgh marks for 1898 or 1903 for the ladle. At that time there was a John Maitland Talbot (Mark JMT which might match). You can look up his mark on the Edinburgh Incorporation of Goldsmiths site. With no duty head the marks must be before 1784 or after 1890. [This message has been edited by agphile (edited 04-07-2013).] IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-07-2013 01:13 PM
I don't know anything about your image hosting a site. I use the storage space provided by my ISP. I upload images, sized to no wider than 640 DPI, and then post the url for the image without additional image links. Maybe someone else will be familiar with your image hosting site... My advice is to use your bare ISP provided storage for images sized to a max of 640 DPI width. IP: Logged |
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