posted 10-11-2017 10:58 AM            

I am fascinated with this pattern.

I have been collecting pieces for three years and I already have an almost complete flatware for 12 guests. I have pieces made by Christofle (France), Fraget (Poland) and Gorham (USA).

I have a lot of great images of this pattern I am glad to share. I don't know how to do it yet, since this is my first post.

I am focused in getting information about the holloware on Peau de Lion.

Help please!!

posted 10-11-2017 12:05 PM            

See also: Fraget silverplate'

posted 10-11-2017 03:14 PM            

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Originally posted by Scott Martin:
See also: Fraget silverplate'

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posted 10-11-2017 06:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott Martin:
Welcome to the Silver Salon Forums.

See also: Fraget silverplate'

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posted 10-11-2017 06:50 PM            

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Originally posted by Polly:
Very cool! I didn't realize how many different manufacturers made this pattern, and I didn't know the name.

I have a set of Gorham oyster forks in this pattern.

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posted 10-11-2017 06:56 PM            

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Originally posted by ahwt:
Thanks for the wonderful pictures. I did not realize that so many serving pieces were made in this pattern.
A dinner party with your silver would open up all kinds of possibilities on table decorations and bill of fare.

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posted 10-12-2017 08:45 AM            

Here you are the oyster forks by Christofle and the "cocktail" forks by Gorham. As you see the weakness of the Gorham's is notorious when you compare with Christofle's forks. What do you think? Am I right?

Regards.

quote:

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Originally posted by Polly:
Very cool! I didn't realize how many different manufacturers made this pattern, and I didn't know the name.

I have a set of Gorham oyster forks in this pattern.

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[This message has been edited by havanna-dellirium (edited 10-12-2017).]

[This message has been edited by havanna-dellirium (edited 10-12-2017).]

posted 10-13-2017 12:19 PM            

You can post table settings in the Tabletop Lifestyles Forum category. No need to have pictures of your guests, just the setting.

posted 10-13-2017 02:45 PM            

I live in Chile. I know a silversmith who has done some good works on silver for me, but he always says the same things: "carbon steel has no choice but to replace it", "the steel can not be silver plated", "the tin can not be silverplated"...

I know that these techniques are old and if they were done before then they should be done today but unfortunately they are techniques that are being lost.

It's a bit frustrating at times.

I am working to upload a comparison between Fraget, Christofle and Gorham "lion's skin" flatware.

Sadly nobody has contributed much with info about holloware on this pattern which is my leit motiv now. Come on, friends!!! Please.
I can not enter other forums on this web, only the forum for newbies is allowed for me. My pictures will have to wait, LOL.

Thanks again

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Originally posted by ahwt:
I think re-guilding is something that is the stock and trade of most silversmiths. If you live in a city with a silversmith I would ask them. It is not expensive as we have done it to several items.

You can post table settings in the Tabletop Lifestyles Forum category. No need to have pictures of your guests, just the setting.

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posted 10-13-2017 02:56 PM            

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Originally posted by Polly:
Interesting. Yes, those skinny ones are my forks. I'm not sure "cocktail fork" was a term in use when they were made--does anyone know? Maybe they're shrimp or seafood forks?

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posted 10-14-2017 08:48 PM            

I have been making an interesting exercise finding out the "slight" differences between Fraget and Christofle soup spoons on this pattern (called "egipski" or "empire" by Fraget and "peau de lion" by Christofle). I was surprised since I thought there were minimal changes and not one of my guests (non related to silver) noticed differences, of course they had a lot of distractions: lights, glasses, china, centerpiece, tablecloth, napkings, knife rests, meals...

I will be posting pictures where you can see Fraget at your left and Christofle at your right:

Fraget's figure does not look as feline as Christofle's, it almost looks like a wild boar and in fact some who do not know the model describe him as a wild boar.

Christofle's model has a funny bangs of hair on the forehead that Fraget does not have.
Fraget's ears are much smaller, like the ears of a rhinoceros or Shreck's.

The muscles of the brow in Christofle are prominent and strong while those of Fraget appear sunken.
The eyes or eyelids in the model of Christofle are insinuated more under the eyebrows whereas in the model of Fraget the eyes are almost imperceptible.

The cheeks of Christofle's lion are wider, while Fraget's cheeks are narrower and more pointed.

Fraget's nose is flatter and the nostrils appear to be more frontal, Christofle's nose is fleshy, and the jaws are wider.

The teeth of the Christofle model point slightly outwards, those of fraget point downwards.

The anterior claws face each other below the face in a very similar way. Discarded the boar because there are no hooves. Fraget's claws seem to me more bony or knotty.

The coat of Christofle's lion is thicker and cuddly while the hair in Fraget's model is finer, it reminds me of certain dogs with double coat of hair, a plush inner layer and an outer one of thicker, longer and separated hairs.

The bundle of sticks supporting the lion's skin ends at the top in a convex form in Christofle's model, while in Fraget's it ends in a flat or slightly convex form.

Below the cross-linking of the lion's hind legs the beam sticks in the Fraget model narrower than in Christofle's model.

The bowls of the spoons are almost identical in the back where they have a stylized palm leaf.

Christofle marks his spoons in the concave part of the bowl, in one side the balance and in the other side Christofle with all its letters; Fraget marks his spoons on the neck of the handle with the eagle bicephala symbolizing the russian empire, the words FRAGET PLAQUE and the letters BM in parentheses that I do not know what they mean. Someone knows?

Personally, I prefer the Christofle model. It may be that I am predisposed in favor of this brand, but considering how difficult it is to find these flatware, probably one of the rarest of Christofle, a good solution for missing replacement is the Fraget model. In general I would say that they are equal models for 99% of unpredicted observers.

What do you think?

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Originally posted by Kimo:
Hi and welcome to the Silver Salon Forum!

I have always enjoyed this kind of pattern - something with an animal type representation. For those who don't speak French, the pattern name - Peau de Lion - simply means Lion Skin which is what is being portrayed on the flatware and hollowware in this pattern. It was supposed to recall the lion skin worn by the mythical Hercules. The pattern was designed by Charles Rossigneux to be shown at the 1867 Paris Exposition. As you mention, it was created by several companies though I think that Christofle and Fraget were more prolific than Gorham. I have seen the Christofle and Fraget examples and I noticed that there are some small but definite differences in their versions of the pattern. All of the examples I have seen have been in silver plate rather than sterling or solid silver (argent massif in French). Are any of yours solid silver or sterling? I hope you give posting some photos a try so that we can all enjoy seeing some examples from your set. Especially, comparing the slight differences in designs among the various makers.

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posted 10-16-2017 02:44 PM            

I think that you have presented a very complete and useful comparison between the Fraget and Christofle versions of this beautiful pattern. Like many things in life, the more you look at things the more detail you see and these two designs that look the same at first glance are actually quite different in a great many small ways. Because these patterns are not easy to find at every street corner antique shop your approach to use them both as a blended set makes a great deal of sense and I would not stress that your guests do not pick up on the differences not only for the reasons you mention but perhaps most of all because the elegance of your meals and your engaging dinner conversation.

As for the lettering on the Fraget flatware, the words FRAGET PLAQUÉ and the letters BM do have specific meanings. They are French. The words FRAGET PLAQUÉ translates as Fraget Plate and the letters BM are an abbreviation for Blanc Metal which translates as White Metal. What this means is that your Fraget flatware is made of a base metal alloy that is plated with thin silver coating that has been applied through through a galvanic deposition process - what is commonly referred to today as electro-plating. The base metal can be one of several light colored metal alloys but is typically mainly tin but it includes some other metals such as zinc and possibly one or more of the following - bismuth, antimony and even sometimes lead. I do not know the mixture of these additive metals to tin that Fraget used back then other than to know it is a white metal alloy. The silver is then deposited on each flatware piece by dipping them into a bath with some chemicals where the fork or spoon or whatever is attached to a wire that is the cathode and a chunk of pure silver is then attached to another wire in another part of the bath that is the anode. An electric current is applied resulting in a stream of atoms of silver leaving the chunk of silver, going through the bath and then being attracted to and deposited onto the white metal fork or spoon or whatever. Because your Fraget, and also your Christofle, flatware are both silver plated and not pure silver (the French TERM for solid silver is "ARGENT MASSIF" which is not on these pieces) you need to be gentle whenever your wash or polish these things to avoid wearing through the silver plating and exposing the base metal underneath which is not as attractive as the nice silver plating. Also, when buying these patterns you should check each piece very closely to be sure there are no wear-throughs anywhere on them. A highly polished piece of silver plate on a white metal base can sometimes have the exposed white metal so shiny that it can be difficult at first to detect until there is a tiny bit of oxidation.

posted 10-18-2017 02:07 PM            

I have other two old drawings, one illustrates a fairly complete tableware (plates, egg cups, glasses, tureen, covered vegetable dishes, decanters...) and the other drawing illustrates an "oil lamp" and a pedestal table or guéridon with the same design.
Up to this point it could be thought that they were only drawings or sketches but, to my surprise and despair, Mr. David Allan (a french expert of the french 19th century silverware and author of a book on the subject that I highly recommend to french -or not-silver lovers) published in his Instagram account a photo of the actual sugar bowl.
In addition, the already closed Christofle Museum had in its collection a liquor service in this model of lion's skin.

I share here all these images of which I speak.

In short, this holloware in lion's skin pattern did existed. Although I do not know if in the same extent as in the drawings but I presume that it was so.

I do not either know if these pieces were made only by order or if they were made in more or less extensive series. Someone knows? How could you find out something like that today?

I will greatly appreciate any reader sharing information or pictures about it.
Good luck to everyone.

posted 11-02-2017 03:22 PM            

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Scott

I think you might have lost some posts from the ‘Peau de Lion’ thread.

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It is possible with the web site move but I'm not sure about this. Can anyone suggest what is missing or re-post what is missing?"