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tline3open  Cataloging my Prince of Wales vinaigrette

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Author Topic:   Cataloging my Prince of Wales vinaigrette
silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-29-2018 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
About a month ago, I started a project to document all my collections while I can still remember some of the particulars, knowing that they will one day go to my son.
There are just too many things I am afraid he might yard sale for X, when I paid XXX! Anyway, as I examine the pieces to catalog, I am falling in love with them all over again.

Tonight I decided to document a little vinaigrette I purchase some years ago from a dealer I met in Baltimore at an antiques show. A purveyor of fine things, the dealer has now relocated from Canada to London, where this piece was found.

According to Wikipedia, a vinaigrette is a “box or small small container with a perforated top, containing a strongly scented substance such as vinegar or smelling salts, especially carried by women in the Victorian era to counter the stench from open sewers and befouled streets, common in cities.” Many contained perfume too.

“Smalls,” such as this, were often given by the “upper crust” to friends, servants, service members to celebrate special occasions, holidays, or as rewards for service.

So step up, take a good look, then someone please tell me why I can not find the hallmarks for this piece. Wish I had documented as I bought, but better late than never.

And by the way, since I didn’t take “business” in high school, I am having a terrible time deciding on the best way to arrange my documents. At first I separated sterling from plate. Then I redid, & divided flatware from hollowware. Currently, I have the pages arranged alphabetically by silversmith/manufacturer with a contents page that also includes tabs for pattern name, type item, & date produced. It’s become quite an undertaking!

The cap is worn from years of handling & the “Vinaigrette” lettering is wearing down. This piece is about 1-1/8” tall & the same in diameter.

Glass base, silver cap, grille with a gold wash

Prince of Wales heraldic badge: 3 white ostrich plumes, coronet, ribbon bears the motto “ICH DIEN” (I serve).

The grille from beneath— no hallmarks there either.

The original sponge, which looks like a “science project” under magnification!

[This message has been edited by silverSMITH (edited 08-29-2018).]

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A few thoughts:

The lack of any hallmarks on something that is purporting to be English is a concern in terms of whether it is sterling silver. And that raises the larger question of is it something that was given by the Prince of Wales to someone or is it not what it seems. I am not an expert in vinaigrettes but I might suggest that you have it appraised by someone who is. There is a substantial amount of forged silver objects around and if it is important to you, you might want to get this expertized by someone other than the dealer who sold it to you.

A second thought, have you sat down with your son and had a serious heart to heart talk with him as to whether he wants your collection. Of course you have poured your heart and soul and love and bank account into creating your collection, but so often children who inherit things do not truly share such devotion to a collection and may be likely to sell it off for the cash. If that is the case, perhaps you may wish to sell off most or all of it yourself to ensure you get the most back out of it that you can so you won't have to put the burden on your heirs. Also, be aware that what you may have paid for things and what you may be able to get back out of your collection may or may not include getting back your investment, especially if you consider inflation. It is possible you might, but there are many things that are no longer as keenly sought by collectors as there may have been 20 or 40 years ago. Also, dealers need to make a full profit for their business so what they pay is not what they charge a buyer for something. Be happy that you got all of your enjoyment out of your collection and do the best you can.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 08-30-2018).]

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would appear this was a stock Prince of Wales novelty piece. I have found half a dozen auctioned between 2005 and this year -- all identical in form and all unmarked.

from a Kentish auction this year

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, WEV. That puts this into some perspective.

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silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for the information.

[This message has been edited by silverSMITH (edited 08-30-2018).]

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silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your reply. Lots to think about.

My silver is more utilitarian than a collection to be admired. I use it every day. No one more important than my family is ever going to pass over my threshold. My son went to his first antiques show at 4 weeks, & built a fine equine collection geared around racing while living in Lexington, KY. He loves the more mansculine pieces of my silver (Francis A Bunnell Fox heads, whiting Heraldic, Gorham Hamburger, Watson golfer) so I am leaning in that direction now. He has instructions to keep what he likes, make sure each of the 5 nieces gets a set of silver, & then sell what is left & spend it for something he loves. We recently divided my Mother’s estate & had one of her granddaughter’s invite us aunts to see Granny’s antiques in her house. Granny’s beloved antique dresser was in the zebra-rugged “wardrobe room” — painted hot pink! Lots of pearls got clutched, but she loves it, it stayed in the family — and good luck getting that color out of the grain when you tire of it!


[This message has been edited by silverSMITH (edited 08-30-2018).]

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Thanks so much for the Information. When you say “novelty” item, do you mean “souvenir” or an item such as the cigarette boxes that were wildly distributed among the troops?

Worship of the rich and famous is nothing new and the Prince was very much both. The tri-feather motif was a hot fad in the late 19th century. I have no idea if its use was officially regulated, but I have seen it on everything from elegant china to rough slipware chamberpots. If it was, then unsigned pieces would not be surprising -- sail the fab, but keep your flag furled.

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dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 08-30-2018 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seldom suffer from silver envy, but am seriously coveting the Gorham Hamburg set (forks?) in your last pic...

~Cheryl

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silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for you, Cheryl. Enjoy.

These forks made me fall in love with hammered silver. Wish I knew more.


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dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 01:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are quite wonderful, I'm always keeping an eye out for a spoon with a dragonfly (not that I wouldn't accept any other small creatures), but no luck so far. Can remember IDing a set on another forum, previous posters had denigrated them soundly as poorly made junk, was so surprised that only one person liked them before they knew they were Gorham and quite desirable.

If you do a search of the forums here, there should be at least a few threads pertaining to Hamburg...

~Cheryl

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vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I saw something not too long ago while I was researching a tea pot with the prince of wales crest on the side on the auction site. Apparently he went to court or whatever royals due to get the use of it by anyone else banned.
That may be why this is unmarked, as submitting it may have gotten one in some trouble.

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asheland

Posts: 935
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm loving that set of Hamburg forks!!!

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silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The lady I bought those from had a dozen. It was a stretch for me to get 6. It took me 3 days of continuously changing my mind before I committed to this 6. All were magnificent!

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silverSMITH

Posts: 23
Registered: Aug 2018

iconnumber posted 08-31-2018 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverSMITH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The lady I bought those from had a dozen. It was a stretch for me to get 6. It took me 3 days of continuously changing my mind before I committed to this 6. All were magnificent!

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