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Author Topic:   Unger Brothers Lockets
Bonsai

Posts: 13
Registered: Oct 2020

iconnumber posted 11-07-2020 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonsai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I mentioned in my last post, I am Bonsai, located in USA. I've been collecting silver panda coins for many years, probably almost 20... Now after the death of my husband, I am getting more in to collecting lockets as I'm also a photographer and it goes with my love of photos. I've started a pretty vast collection of victorian lockets and art nouveau lockets.

One of my favorite styles of art nouveau is Unger.. although as an aside I think Kerr is better made, I have some of those as well.

Anyway, a seller, in the description of a locket, mentioned that in 1910 Unger Brothers stopped using their logo on "some" items. I am seeking to see if this is true.

I've researched to the best of my ability all round Unger lockets I can find online. None have the Unger hallmark, Instead they are hallmarked "sterling" on the inside edges of the frame. They are sold as "Unger Brothers".

I do have some Unger heart lockets that are marked UB... I also have a brooch.

But I'm officially perplexed as to the truth regarding round lockets by UB, and there are many as I am posting a page from my catalog.

I've found a # of the models here online, sold as UB, none hallmarked. I can not find 1 round locket sold as UB with an UB hallmark. Do they exist? (note dont confuse with the heart lockets, those are hallmarked)

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11422
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 11-08-2020 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

FYI: Unger Brothers brooches - Silverphiles Beware!

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Bonsai

Posts: 13
Registered: Oct 2020

iconnumber posted 11-08-2020 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonsai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you. I had Read that previously but it doesnt seem to answer my question. I also cant reply to any of the other UB threads.

I've read most of the info out there about UB including their history. I have a book by Judith Levitan and their catalog as well.

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-08-2020).]

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11422
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 11-08-2020 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bonsai:
....doesn't seem to answer my question... [why I] can't reply to any of the other UB threads. .....

Actually it does.

Read all the Guidelines carefully.

[This message has been edited by Scott Martin (edited 11-08-2020).]

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Bonsai

Posts: 13
Registered: Oct 2020

iconnumber posted 11-08-2020 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonsai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont see anything on the silver files link you provided regarding lockets or items without the marks. the article seems to be a very specific situation and everyone seems to throw it around as if all Unger things are fake. I do not see casting marks on round lockets. I dont see a mark with a dot.
What I see is lockets all hallmarked sterling, in the proper size and well cast. I have not found a single ROUND Unger locket with their logo and I am seeking to find ONE.

I've read the guidelines thank you. for some reason the post of mine you have quoted is misquoted?

The closest I can come to getting an answer about LOCKETS is this thread where the consensus is "if you think its real it is" which isn't real conclusive. Also the inserts in the locket in the thread below are different than typical UB inserts.

I'm a Newbie and I Heart Unger Brothers Loves Dream

Rather than post links to lengthy guidelines, please post any guidelines I am involution of or any text that specifically answers my question that I have seem to have missed?

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-08-2020).]

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-08-2020).]

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-08-2020).]

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Wolf

Posts: 6
Registered: Sep 2020

iconnumber posted 11-12-2020 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How can the sellers identify these as Unger Brothers if they are not marked as such? Could they all be fake?

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Bonsai

Posts: 13
Registered: Oct 2020

iconnumber posted 11-12-2020 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonsai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"How can the sellers identify these as Unger Brothers if they are not marked as such? Could they all be fake?"

well good question. That's why I'm asking as well...
Many sellers are listing round lockets as UB. I've not found one in extensive research marked as UB.... so either 1. they are all fake or 2. UB didnt hallmark their round lockets.
However I've seen several in person and they are not castings or repros.
Did someone obtain UB dyes?.. Possibly after the company faded out?
Although that begs the question if someone used their dyes are they really "fakes"? Separate topic maybe smile

Another peculiar oddity: the Jump ring that attaches to the bail... the UB lockets had oblong ones and many of the round lockets have a jump ring that matches the UB one to the T. Found that strange.

That's why I'm trying to find out about the history. I have an UB catalog but sadly none show the inside fo the lockets. I am going to message someone who wrote a book on them to see if she knows.
It's a peculiar topic for sure

On a side note I bought a lot of spoons the same. Hallmarked sterling. Not repros... Seller said someone prob obtained UB dyes to make the spoons.... so it got me thinking about the lockets and wondered if this was a possibility.... but it seems with the prevalence of heart lockets from UB you'd find at least ONE round locket... SOMEWHERE... that was hallmarked if they did hallmark their round lockets. That's what makes this so peculiar.

On a side note I had trouble logging in again and had to reset my password again.

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-12-2020).]

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Levitan

Posts: 9
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-12-2020 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Levitan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I assume you are thinking to message me wrt this thread. Keep in mind that Unger was a manufacturing silversmith. In other words several things were going on at the time (as noted in our book). The first is that there was widespread copying of designs amongst the companies who were capable of doing that. The second is that Unger had no problem offering unmarked items to retailers (similar to Shiebler manufacturing for Tiffany, but anonymously so as not to narrow their market). As to the round lockets, we have to admit we haven't seen them in a long time and don't remember the markings. The dot under the U is a nuance we're not familiar with. If you are simply looking for guidance in this area, it's simple: Don't buy anything purporting to be Unger Bros. that isn't marked with either the new or old form of the interlocked U and B. After 1909 and probably a few years before that, the place just wasn't the same without Philomen, Herman &. Eugene

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Bonsai

Posts: 13
Registered: Oct 2020

iconnumber posted 11-13-2020 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonsai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes thank you I was indeed thinking to msg you as I have your book. Your reply was very helpful. by the dot on the U I assume you are referring to someone else's link about the fakes. I haven't seen that myself either.
If I understood you right then you've not seen a round locket with either UB logo either?
I wondered myself If they were selling them out the back door but maybe it's a you said they were offering them to other companies, or is it possible multiple companies got their castings from the same place/ maker thus making them virtually identical?

Thank you so much for your reply

[This message has been edited by Bonsai (edited 11-13-2020).]

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1776
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 11-13-2020 07:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would guess that the round lockets were just too difficult to mark with the UB logo due to the narrow space available on the inside rim (although I can't explain why they didn't put the mark on an applied plaque on an inside surface as some mfrs did). I have seen several such lockets, and even sold a couple, that were just marked STERLING. Everything about them was consistent with UB production from the early 20C.

Fake UB does exist but it is usually of cast construction and notably lower in quality. If it was just one locket design that kept turning up unsigned, I might have doubts, but since every single round locket seems to be unsigned, and since nobody seems to be aware of a signed one, I suspect they all simply left the factory without the UB mark.

A lot of great jewelry of all kinds was left unsigned for various reasons.

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