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Author Topic:   Is it real Tiffany?
Sanguevivo

Posts: 5
Registered: Mar 2022

iconnumber posted 03-27-2022 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanguevivo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry I'm Italian and I don't speak English very well!! My name is Zac, I'm writing from Bologna and I'm a primary school teacher.

I will retry to post images!

I've bought this pendant [at online auction], the seller says that it's original but I'm not sure!

[This message has been edited by Scott Martin (edited 04-10-2022).]

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1791
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 04-01-2022 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this appears to be genuine tiffany. it is letter "c" from elsa peretti's collection of initial pendants.

your chain is signed PERETTI in block letters on a bone shaped tag, indicating it is a vintage piece. newer pieces are stamped with a facsimile "Elsa Peretti" signature and do not use the bone shaped tags.

tiffany still sells this collection but i would guess yours is from the 90s or even 80s.

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Sanguevivo

Posts: 5
Registered: Mar 2022

iconnumber posted 04-01-2022 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanguevivo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your reply!

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Kimo

Posts: 1617
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-05-2022 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe yes and maybe no. The difficulty with anything Tiffany is that it is so heavily counterfeited. In antique Tiffany there are problems where markings have been added or changed, and in modern Tiffany such at this necklace the problem is that it is so easy to counterfeit, the profits from counterfeiting are very large, and the chances of getting caught by any law enforcement is so small. The result is that there are parts of the world where all kinds of modern luxury brands are counterfeited and then sold on world markets as real. Ebay is one of the places where such counterfeit luxury brand items are often sold. You can get lucky and find something real on Ebay, but I think that that is more of the exception than the rule for modern luxury brand products. For such things it is best to remember the Latin warning "caveat emptor".

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 04-05-2022).]

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11503
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-05-2022 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, Kimo has it right about counterfeits and eBay. And often the eBay seller doesn't know.

Your photo of the Tiffany mark is a little small & unclear. Could you post a better photo?

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 04-05-2022 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This got me thinking about one of my favorite forum posts about eBay: now I've really seen it all on eBay ....

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1791
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 04-06-2022 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^that's an SMPub classic, Scott biggrin

there are tons of tiffany counterfeits, but my feeling is that this one is real, insofar as i can evaluate it from a photo. this would probably be an unlikely series to knock off, due to its specificity (initials) and its being a less famous and coveted design (versus her oft-copied beans and open hearts, say).

not that it's impossible, but i just don't think it's a knockoff. just to be sure, discounting normal wear & scratches, is it perfectly finished on all interior & exterior parts of the pendant (no signs of sloppy casting/finishing like seams, surface porosity, sprue marks, or rough surfaces)?

peretti's initials seem to have been introduced in the 1982-3 tiffany catalog, and i suspect this piece dates from the 80s based on the tag shape & mark typography.

the worst tiffany knockoffs i've seen were a peretti design with frank gehry marks and a copy of the "1837" collection that said "1887" instead, lol.

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Scott Martin
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Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-06-2022 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paul I didn't mean to cast doubt about your conclusion.

The photo of the Tiffany mark is just a little too small and unclear on my system (& for my old eyes).

Unlike you, I almost never handle modern Tiffany jewellery. I asked for the better photo so I could understand why it looks like (on my system) the Tiffany letters might have been individually struck.

I wouldn't think Tiffany would take the time to individually letter strike the company name. I was thinking my system may have been causing me to have an unnecessary suspicion.

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Scott Martin
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Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-08-2022 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess Sanguevivo got the info they required.........

This is the best enlargement of Sanguevivo photo I can do. To me it still looks like the Tiffany mark's individual letters were each struck one at a time as opposed to all at once with a single dye that spells out Tiffany&CO.

One example: Consider why the two "FF" look so different.

What do you think?

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Kimo

Posts: 1617
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or why does the "TIFFANY" appear to slant upwards slightly from left to right. Anything is possible but for such a simple design that can so easily be counterfeited with the tools and technology that is in the hands of forgery producers in places like China and some other far eastern countries as well as some eastern European countries, combined with those countries governments tending to not do much to stop such counterfeiting and exporting of luxury name designers. And these days the counterfeits are not always so easy to tell even by experts as they were years ago when most were sand castings or other relatively crude attempts. Then you combine that with the silly high retail prices of the authentic items of such luxury brands command making conterfeiting very profitable with the loose almost anything goes nature of websites of the online auctions and sellers and you have an outcome of it being wise to not trust most such modern luxury brand things you buy on those outlets. Of course you can find authentic second or third hand luxury items on those sites, but I sense that the odds are against the buyer, hence Caveat Emptor. I would at the very least want the original bill of sale and original packaging as a start for provenance before even beginning to consider buying in this way.

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Sanguevivo

Posts: 5
Registered: Mar 2022

iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanguevivo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you all for your contributions.
I waited until I was home alone to take some decent photos and not spoil the surprise for my wife. I attach high resolution photos of the brands. I don't think the letter is such an iconic object as to require all this precision!
Sorry for my English but I write from Italy and use google translate.





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Scott Martin
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Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for the better and so much clearer photos. This points out why appraisers & experts really must personally handle anything that they are reviewing.

I now have significantly less and yet different reflections.

Some of my observations from these photos:


  1. As Kimo observed, the Tiffany runs uphill.
    I don't know much about modern Tiffany manufacturing (perhaps Paul does). I know that the old Tiffany processes tend to be more exacting and efficient. As such I would think it is much more efficient to have the dye for the 'dog bone' to include the marks. Most of the marks, like the Tiffany mark, seem to be a little out of place.

  2. Another question, which might just be dirt in the lettering or it is evidence of a poorly made dye or evidence of a failing dye, but many of the letters seem to have issues. For example in the Tiffany mark the T A N & O I F Y.

Guess the way to know is to directly purchase from Tiffany & CO for a side by side comparison.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4108
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bearing in mind that I have little real knowledge of modern jewelry, I am very dubious that this is real looking with purely technical eye.
Unless Tiffany has further degraded their standards, the markings are off. The A in Tiffany is too large, dropping below the line. The & is a mess. The strike should not be at an angle to the 'bone' which would have been securely seated in a stamping machine with a precisely aligned bed and punch.
The lettering in PERETTI is mis-spaced as well, and also out of alignment.
On both tags, the holes are not equally positioned or centered in their rounds.
I would have the C itself tested closely for metal content. More importantly, I would have each tag checked.

[This message has been edited by wev (edited 04-10-2022).]

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1791
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yikes, now that i see clear close-ups the marks do look fishy. early peretti chains were stamped PERETTI with italic block letters, these are oddly tilted, slanted, and off-center. as is the rather splotchy looking tiffany mark. the tag is not well finished on the edges either. i am truly surprised that somebody would bother to copy these pendants.

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wev
Moderator

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iconnumber posted 04-10-2022 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Lemieux:
i am truly surprised that somebody would bother to copy these pendants.

I do not collect coins, but follow several forum on the subject. The whole hobby is rife with counterfeits and has been for a decade or more. Lately, the copyists have taken a new direction, producing masses of low to medium value coins. They require less precision, are easier to disguise as used, and are less likely to draw suspicion than high end pieces. Dealers can buy them wholesale by the hundred count for a few dollars each and sell them on the bay or at swap meets for $20-$50. It is a very lucrative trade that goes almost completely ignored by the Feds.
This looks very much the same business model.

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Sanguevivo

Posts: 5
Registered: Mar 2022

iconnumber posted 04-12-2022 02:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanguevivo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also noticed that the dot is missing at the end of TIFFANY & CO.
If someone could send pictures of the tags for comparison it would be very helpful. I couldn't find anything on the net.

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Kimo

Posts: 1617
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-18-2022 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Lemieux:
. . . i am truly surprised that somebody would bother to copy these pendants.

Hi Paul. If you look on the Tiffany website you will see that they sell their Peretti necklaces for unbelievable prices when one considers how simple the designs are. It is like other "luxury" brand names these days where you pay silly high prices for the luxury brand name. Even when scammers sell the forgeries for discounted prices on Ebay and other places where there is little oversight the profit margins are very high and it is big business to make such forgeries for a few dollars of silver and a few dollars of effort and then sell them for enormous mark-ups. Such luxury brand name forgeries are a multimillion dollar industry.

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