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Author Topic:   Norway silver sugarspoon?
silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 07-29-2007 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1458]

Hello to you all,

My user's name is silverhunter and since a short while I'm collecting silver from Norway and also buy some silver/plated articles in second hand shops.

I hope with these photo's someone call tell me more about this sugar spoon? I'm not sure, or is this one to get fruit out of bowl? The spoon is engraved with the date 15 mai 1870 but I can't find any information about the stamps called:

AASEN and CHR.SUND. I've read somewhere that 13 1/4 is a measure of LOT and that is the same for 828/1000 silver?

I hope some member can give me more information about the stamped names.
Thank you very much!

greetings
silverhunter.



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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 08-26-2007 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
silverhunter,

Please don't start new threads on the same subject. Your new post/thread of this afternoon was deleted. Thanks

quote:
silverhunter
posted 08-26-2007 02:01 PM
At the 29th of July I posted a topic with the wrong name "sugar spoon".

Meanwhile I've learned that it is a fruit spoon ? to get fruit out of bowl. Because there wasn't a reaction I will react to give more information from my side.

The date of this object is 1870, I asked the same question to a owner of a antique shop in Norway.(by mail).

His answer was that 13 1/4 figure stands for the silver content, and was used approx 1880. From then on silver was stamped 830 S.

The stamp Chr.Sund (wasn't the person who made this model, that's what I thought) but is an abbreviation for Christiansund or Kristiansund- a town on the north-western coast of Norway. After the period that Blakstone recognized the model "Kronestil" I finely found a person who knows this model to and send me a mail about his knowledge. So I think when you try you want to know something at the end always a solution will come. It's not much information but perhaps somebody can use this little information.


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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Scott Martin,

I've a request will you delete all my topics, I've learned a lot from all reactions.(In a very short time)

I'm sorry for to say this but It's a pity that when you post a new topic or react at another topic this isn't appreciated.

I made a few mistakes and didn't had to react sometimes but that's the energy I use.

My interest in silverwork continue but first I've to learn about books and other possibilities that's better than sometimes get no reaction at all at a normal question included with photo's.

I wish all the best and will sometimes look at your forum and without reactions from my side.

Also special thanks to all the members for given good information and spending time for that.

Greetings Silverhunter.

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dragonflywink

Posts: 975
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 04:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Silverhunter,

Not sure if I've missed something here, but speaking for myself, have found your posts interesting, enjoyed your enthusiasm, and was impressed by your ability to communicate in a language foreign to you. You've had a better overall response to your posts than many long-time members, and most of us have been corrected politely in some way regarding our posts, not sure why you seem to have taken offense.


~Cheryl

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Silverhunter,

From the Guidelines:

quote:
* Unfortunately, there is the possibility that no one has the information you want. This is particularly true of items made outside the USA/Canada/Britain. With continental items the country can frequently be determined but makers are very numerous and their documentation is spread over thousands of dollars worth of books, an investment that is not justifiable for most people given the infrequent use they could make of them. So, if you do not get an answer, do not take it as a personal slight - it may just be that no one knows or that it is taking longer to research.

Sometimes it can take a long time for answers to appear. Our members aren't here 24/7. Some can be gone for months (and sometime years) at a time. Sometimes it takes an additional piece of info by another new member to get things rolling. Or in my case, many of my references are in storage and not easily accessed.

Patience & perseverance in researching silver is a must . Lets leave things as they are and in time we would hope to see additions to your posts/threads.

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had several posts go unanswered, personally, some going back well over a year. But I still hold out hope on some of them.

As to this one, I had no response because I just don't know (plus I've been busy getting ready for the new semester that started this week, and trying to finish another book, and haven't been in here as much as usual). The only good reference I have for Norwegian silver doesn't have much after the 18th century. The 13¼L mark seems unusual; the Norwegian standard I can find record of is 13½L. There are also other marks (like the town and date) that should be there if it's Norwegian, so that seems a shaky attribution. But yes, it should be silver, probably of roughly .828 fineness.

Aasen, as I'm sure you already know, is a perfectly good Norwegian name, not uncommon, hard to trace. I presume the CHR.SUND refers to a Christiansund (English: Christian's Sound) somewhere, but the one I can locate is in Greenland. If this should in fact be from Greenland then I have absolutely no relevant information.

As to the form, I would probably call it a sugar sifter. But the actual intended use of old silver pieces is often as much a matter of speculation as anything else, and it certainly could be for fruit instead, or something else entirely - for all I know it could be a server for lutkefisk! (unlikely, but my point is that different cultures have different traditions for the use of serving and eating utensils, which may not even occur to people outside those cultures)

I know this looks like a lot of words, but if you look carefully you'll note that it all boils down to, I really just can't say anything significant about this piece. I'd assume that many others were in the same boat. It happens that this moment I needed a break from work, and could take the time to answer. Plus, I've enjoyed your postings and your enthusiasm, and like Cheryl wanted to urge you to reconsider and stay with us.

-- Fred

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How did you decide it was a fruit spoon and not a sugar sifter? I have a number of nineteenth and twentieth century sugar sifters with similar shaped and peferated bowls. You did not provide dimensions. Perhps it is larger than most sugar sifters?

Tom

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 08-30-2007 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please don't get discouraged, Silverhunter; I very much have enjoyed your posts. This one has me stumped, too.

I think maybe FWG has it backwards, though: Aasen is a city in Norway and Sund is a common surname. I think this was made in Aasen by someone named Christian Sund, and that the 1870 date is contemporaneous with manufacture. 13-1/4 lot is a common Norwegian fineness, especially in the third quarter of the 19th century, translating to .828 fine.

Since you're near Norway, I'd suggest some primary research. Maybe your local library has access to old Aasen census records, city directories, etc. You might try checking them for a Christian Sund in Aasen who was a silversmith around 1870.

[This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 08-30-2007).]

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good to know about the 13¼ designation - I hadn't run across it, and the references I checked didn't list it. The names complicate things, though, since they evidently can go either way, but given the placement you're probably right that it's a city of Aasen and person Christian Sund. And that should be easier to check out than the other way around....

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doc

Posts: 712
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I echo other's sentiments that you will stay as well, silverhunter. Even though you may not get responses to every posting, they have been very interesting. I haven't answered because this is outside of my area of expertise and reference collection, but hopefully, you will in time get a response. I have many postings that have gone unanswered, but I too hold out hope, so stick with it and with us!

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doc

Posts: 712
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some partial help. An Internet search led me to a geneaology site, in which I found that CHR.SUND was a commonly used abbreviation in documents for Kristiansund, a city on the northwestern coast of Norway.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First I want to apologize to you all, Scott Martin,Dragonflywink,FWG,Tmockait,Blakstone,
Kimo, Doc, Argentum etc. Thank you for your good reactions and I learned that I must be more patient to wait for an answer, after send a new topic.
At second, I think a asked to many questions (topics) in a very short time.(There are also other members who will place a new topic) I think it could look selfish from my side. I am glad with all the answers I will react soon at some points about the silver object.
I know it's no job for you all for giving all that information, it's for free! All the silver information looks like gold to me.

I appreciate it a lot and I'm proud to be able for staying at this Forum.

Greetings to all and have a nice weekend.
Many Thanks!!!

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am happy you are staying with us Silverhunter! Kimo

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 08-31-2007 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Upon reflection, Kristiansund as the city and Aasen as the maker does seem more likely. I was focused on the fact that Kristiansund is known to have had a city mark and Aasen (as far as I know) is not. But Kristiansund was significantly larger, and by the 1870's the replacement of city marks by the name was not at all uncommon.

Like I say, some primary research is in order. There's nothing like that satisfying "Eureka!' while poring over old census records.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-01-2007 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo and Blakstone thanks for your reactions.

Considering Aasen is now clear to me.

I think that some gold/silversmith moved from place to place to find a new market for their patterns after a long period.

Some stayed in one city and (I think) the best could settle in a town for centuries (families like Olsens and Brødrene Lohne in Bergen like Dragonflywink and also informed by you Blakstone).
Books I can't order in the excellent service giving local bookshop.(Considering silver work from Norway)

Now I have to visit the head library.

I also found a series about antique books in a second hand shop also information about silver inside. Perhaps I buy these. There are nice articles inside but most of them are European silver information of course. When I found something about silver work from America,Canada or England I let you know.

Greetings Silverhunter.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-02-2007 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FWG,
I hope you read this just in time, thanks for your positif reactions. Have a great time in Canada, good flight enjoy the holiday.

Greetings silverhunter.

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