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Author Topic:   Memorial fork
Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1792
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After reading the death silver discussion in the coin silver forum, I dug out this old fork. It is a large dinner size fork and seems to be from Hamburg.

The front is monogrammed and the back reads "d. 28 Febr. 1869." Presumably "d." stands for "deceased" in English or some other language.

I would guess that the fork was originally part of a set owned by the deceased, and that after his/her death, the set was split up, and the individual pieces were inscribed and given to different family members.

By the by, can anybody identify the maker--"B & G"?

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Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An earlier post (German hallmarks) identified 'B&G' as 'Brahms & Gutruf'.
As for the interpretation of "d." I am not quite convinced. In German 'born' would most likely be abbreviated as 'geb.' and 'died' as 'gest.'. The "d." could be standing for 'den' (English 'the ..') referring to the date of any sort of event (engagement, wedding, birth or maybe even death smile etc.).
It is admittedly possible that it is in another language; generally though, I'd prefer the simplest explanation i.e. one consistent with local usage.
Can anyone give an opinion as to whether the style of the inscription points to either Germany or England?

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1792
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for pointing me to the B & G post smile -I had not thought to search the place settings forum.

I have also puzzled over the "d." One possibility is that the fork had migrated to another country by the time it was inscribed. The monogram on the front and the inscription on the back do not quite match perfectly in lettering style. So, although the fork was made and puchased in Germany, it may have been inscribed years later in another country.

If that is the case, the country would have to be one where the word for February can be abbreviated "Febr". So even though in France "d." could stand for "décédé" (deceased), February in French is "Février". In German, February is "Februar".

[This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 10-22-2003).]

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Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A discrepancy between the styles of the monogram and the date does add some weight to your theory. Now, if someone out there with a good set of books can identify the date the piece was made, and if that date is significantly earlier than 1869, that would indeed strengthen you case.

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1792
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll admit that it is a small discrepancy and may be meaningless.

Perhaps somebody with a more complete listing of German hallmarks can determine exactly what year the fork was made.

Tardy does show an 1821 three tower Hamburg mark having the same outline as the mark on my fork. The mark in Tardy has a "V" under the towers, whereas this fork has an "E". However, the Tardy mark lacks the details on the towers that the fork's mark has. So perhaps my fork is from the next date cycle, or perhaps Tardy's illustration is just not fully detailed.

Hopefully somebody may be able to post suggestions for what "d." could mean in German. I checked German translations for words such as married, born, wed, etc. on Altavista and none came back as beginning with a d.

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rosenberg shows a similar configured Hamburg mark with a date letter "C" as early 19th Cent.

The notation could be in Latin (and therefore used anywhere):

d from decedere (de vita), to die (depart from life)

and Febr from Februarius,

but I vote for English, with the fork being brought to America (where Febr. was used) with immigrants, and inscribed according to the old world custom of day/month/year.

See the thread at the following link for another example by this maker:

German hallmarks

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Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I admit that my hunch about 'd.' being an abbreviation of 'den' used with dates in earlier times is based on less than dependable recollection. Also using it in this situation would be archaic (OK for 1869) and maybe unusual and/or pedandic as well. Nor can I find an alternative explanation for it in what I thought would be the most promising source.

On the other hand the notion that it is English, means 'died' and was applied in America requires some assumptions with less than compelling probabilities:
  • in mid-19th century when silver was still quite expensive immigrants brought monogrammed substantial silver with them? Some may have, but I'd say very few.
  • a number of years later they died, the silver was marked the American way to indicate death but with a German style date.
    Not impossible and like all reasonable theories it is assembled to match the facts. But the odds make some further corroboration essential. So, here are some questions:
  • how were American memorial spoons normally marked?
  • have there ever been memorial forks?
  • is the "upstroke" of the '1' consistent with American practice at the time?

As I was finishing this post a German friend returned my call. I described the inscription to him without offering an opinion. After hesitating a while he told me the only thing he could think of was an abbreviation of 'den'. Of course this doesn't prove anything, but it does raise the possibility of a purely local explanation. Unfortunately my high speed connection is down and I'm limited to dial-up; so, further searching has to wait. I'll be back! smile


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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1792
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 10-22-2003 11:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found photos of an old Gorham server I sold awhile ago. It carried an inscription of "1863". It was the closest inscription to 1869 that I could find on an American piece.

The "1" does have an upstroke, although it is not as extended as the one on the German fork.

And here is an inscription from an American coin silver dessert spoon. The upstroke here is longer than the Gorham one.


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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-23-2003 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See the following thread for a discussion of another example:.
Coin silver funeral spoons

quote:
Presentation of inscribed spoons to participants in funerals was a common practice in Europe in the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries. The custom was followed in New York among members of the Dutch community in New York City and Albany.

Here are some inscriptions from Albany funeral spoons catalogued by Norman Rice in Albany Silver 1652 - 1825:

Annie Yates 4th Feby 1795 in her 69th Year

Stephen van Rensselaer died 14th Sept 1787 Aged5 Months & 18 Days

John D. Peyster Esqr. Died Feby: 1789 Aged 95 Yrs: 1 Month & 6 Days

John Van Allen died 30th decr 1797 Aged 63Yrs 3 Mo

Magdalena Gansevoort / Obt 12th Octr 1796 AE 78 y 2 m

In Memory of / Peter Van Vechten

In Memory of Teunis / T. Van Vechten died Decr 7th / 1817 Aged 68 Yrs 7 Mo 2 dys

Note the typical Anglo-American engraving in the following photo ( the 1775 date predates the spoon, which was made after 1780):

Below are two 18th C European (probably Germanic) spoons with typical engraving. In the example on the left, the style of the one is archaeic; in the example on the right, which is typically pricked or "pounced", the numerical style does not differ appreciably from that used in the Nineteenth Century, except that the upper flag on the one is often omitted and the legs spread so that the left leg resembles a long flag:

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Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-23-2003 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you both for the enlightenment on these character shapes - a whole new area to study and an obviously essential one. Any suggestions for a good text?
Never having studied this, I wonder at the presence of the upstroke on the American 'ones' and the absence of a "cross bar" (?) on the European 'seven'. Is there a simple answer as to when those changes took place?

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Bert
unregistered
iconnumber posted 11-29-2003 06:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there,

I have some new information concerning the memorial fork. The makers mark is for Brahmfeld and Gutruf in Hamburg/Germany, a gold- and silverware supplier established in 1842 by Johann Friedrich Brahmfeld (*1790 + 1852). Johann Georg Gutruf joins the shop in 1842 and is to be the first European who buys diamonds from South Africa. The townmark with the tree towers is Hamburg and the letter F stands for the essayer's period of Johann Hinrich Jacob Wienicke from 1857 up to the 1870s. Wienicke was born in Hamburg on march 16th 1802.
Concerning the d. in the mono the member was right who said 'den' translated 'the'.
Hope everyone is satisfied now!
Bert

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vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 11-30-2003 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I remember trying to date a Hamburg creamer which is early 19c, but was frustrated in that there isn't much info on Hamburg date cycles. The marks look very similar in various cycles and there is no mention of skipped letters or repeated letters as can sometimes happen. I also wondered at the monogram, which looks very English is style, and really wonder if one can draw any conclusions based on style of script for country of origin.

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 12-01-2003 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The upstroke on the one seems to be used on several pieces I have as well. The European pieces where a "1" is present all have the upstroke, the couple of examples I have in American made pieces have it as well, but I think it may be related to the amount of time and training / retraining an engraver may have experianced while in this country (assumming they were trained in Europe), or for that matter their teachers.

Another thought... If a maker or engraver were attempting to create a replacement piece or a customer was getting an additional piece made the customer may want the same engraving to match as closly as possible the existing work... Just a thought.

"Smaug"

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1792
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 12-01-2003 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bert thank you for your update.

quote:
Concerning the d. in the mono the member was right who said 'den' translated 'the'.

So does that mean that the inscription would be read, "The 28th of February, 1869"?

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 12-01-2003 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, except for elaborate ciphers and other highly decorative devices, the letter forms used by engravers were not peculiar to them, but to the custom of the time. Reading contemporary documents such as censuses, deeds, wills, indentures, etc., reveals that the same styles were used in writing, and that the penmanship of many of those writers was very much better then than now, and a source of pride, too (my wife's Grandfather had been a "secretary" (skilled scribe or document writer) for the Pennsylvania Railroad, and was quite proud of his writing). This pertains to documants by those trained in the English language - don't even ask about those written in old German script, which are almost unintelligible by comparison!

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Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 12-01-2003 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So does that mean that the inscription would be read, "The 28th of February, 1869"?
Exactly! Inserting 'den' in front of a date was very common until fairly recently. It still isn't proof that the 'd.' means 'den' rather than 'died' as proposed originally; but it is the simpler explanation.

Having done some checking around I now believe that one cannot distinguish based on style between older American writing and German formal ("Kanzlei") script from the same time. I was very surprised by the fact that American records from last century do not reflect the differences from European ones that we take for granted today.


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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 12-15-2003 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While researching on Skandinavian silver made in the US by immigrants I happened on this charming silver story. In it is an explanation for the use of death dates on silver. I am sorry, but I do not know how to make an elegant hyperlink. Here is a link to the tale:

And an excerpt on the silver:

"Further research showed that the spoon was a so called "funeral spoon" distributed to pallbearers carrying the last remains of distinguished citizens to their final resting place, a custom in vogue in the western part of Sweden. This would explain why a spoon made in 1726 carried an inscription of a person who died in 1728. Obviously Fernl�f must have carried a well-stocked supply of spoons to be inscribed when the occasion demanded it."


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Danesilver
unregistered
iconnumber posted 01-01-2004 04:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
about the d. in front of the date :

I believe that the first suggestion by Argentum is the correct explanation.

The d. stands for den meaning the.
That is the common way of dating in letterheads in german speaking countries - and in Denmark.

I appen to own a serving set with the same Hamburg mark and in the same pattern as shown. The year 1869 seen reasonable for the making of the piece.

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