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Author	Topic: Russian Goblet
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-12-2005 02:32 PM [07-0239] I recently obtained this interesting Russian Goblet and am wondering if this was something made for religious use or not. The assay master is HC (NS) which I can't find and the date is 1897. The makers mark is possibly an incomplete O followed by an upside down N. It has a nice heavy weight. IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 03-12-2005 08:19 PM The photo is very blurred. The letters are cyrillic. The backward "N" is an 'i', and the open "O" is probably "C", which is "S". I could not id the maker. Can you post a clearer picture? Tom IP: Logged
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 03-12-2005 08:27 PM One thing should be said here very clear: If you can not send better detail photos try to make sketches. What I see is just a pain in the eyes! If you do not provide e x a c t informations you will get no answers! What I can see is the assaymaster N.S (Latin) Nicolaij Stradomskj who was on duty in Vilnius only for one year, the year 1897. To tell you who the silversmith is I need clear photos or scetches. This goblet (flute)was commonly used for champagner or wine. No clerical background. Hope that helps Sazikov2000 IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-12-2005 08:34 PM Champagne out of a silver flute? No wonder the Romanoff's fell. . . IP: Logged
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 03-13-2005 09:15 AM Two examples from my collection: typical Russian champagner flutes, silver, niello. Other countries other habits! sSazikov2000 IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-13-2005 03:08 PM the jpg of the marks should have been smaller but for some reason expanded when transfered. The marks are a bit overstruck in any case and hard to make out. IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 03-16-2005 09:49 PM Well, here's the mark reduced to legible, if postage stamp, size: Sazikov2000 is, of course, correct about the 1897 mark of Vilnius assayer Nicolai Stradomski (who had earlier worked in Moscow.) The maker's mark appears to be "AM" - mercifully the same in Cyrillic and Latin. The only recorded Vilnius mark with these initials is that of Aizik Magat, but I think it unlikely that this mark is his. Magat was actually two men: father and son. Magat elder was born in 1806 and apparently died not long after he took his last apprentice in 1859. Magat the younger took over the shop - which was quite large - in 1857 and he himself died in 1879. While it is possible that the shop continued for some time after the younger Magat's death, it is to be noted that there was another "AM" working in Vilnius closer to 1897 whose mark is not recorded: Ancel Mereine (master, Kaunas, 1886; moved to Vilnius by 1893). In any event, as you say, the mark does appear to be overstruck; it may well represent a retailer's mark which obscures that of the actual manufacturer, rendering any hope of identifying the latter impossible. And I agree with Sazikov: while cups such as this are routinely sold as kiddush or ceremonial wine cups, unless they bear some Hebrew or other inscription identifying them as such, they cannot be proved to anything other than wine goblets. IP: Logged

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