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tline3open  800 / 835 availability

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Author Topic:   800 / 835 availability
Gaspare

Posts: 95
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 06-01-2005 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry if this might be somewhat of a beginner question..

I have run across several rings that claimed to be from the 1930s/1940s era, and are marked 800 and 835 that when tested by a jeweler come out to really be 925 sterling.. That along with some other problems lead me to believe they are reproductions, made to deceive.

I've been checking silver supply houses for the grades of silver they offer. There seems to be 2, Fine silver and Sterling..
Is 800 and 835 silver offered in the U.S.? What about the rest of the world? Thanks for the help. , G.

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-01-2005 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I cannot answer your questions about reproductions and fradulent marks. I am, however, puzzled as to why anyone would mark sterling (925) as "800" or "835", thus undervaluing its silver content!

As for second question, 800 is quite common for continental silver. Search the forum for German, Austrian, and Hungarian silver for some excellent threads on this subject.

Also, please post a picture, which will help in answering your questions.

Good luck,
Tom

[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 06-01-2005).]

[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 06-01-2005).]

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sazikov2000

Posts: 254
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 06-02-2005 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sazikov2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not know what kind of rings from the 1930s/1940s aera you are looking for but if it is Third Reich stuff, than it is for the forgers quite normal to take the silver available (925) and hallmark it as it was usual at that time in Germany (800 or 835). For them it does not matter if the silvercontent is better than hallmarked - they ask their high prices for the fakes - and get it from their simple minded customers.

Sazikov 2000

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Gaspare

Posts: 95
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 06-02-2005 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom, Sazikov, thanks for your replies..

I agree that much European silver at the time was marked 800, 835 and also 900. Also I've come to the conclusion after some study and having the pieces tested that they are 925, stamped wrongly to deceive.. I ask my original question:

Is true 800 and or 835 available in the US and Europe to buy as bullion for the manufacture of jewelry? ,or has it been phased out and just the sterling and fine available. , thanks again , G.

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sazikov2000

Posts: 254
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 06-03-2005 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sazikov2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To answer your original question:

in Europe (I can only speak for the European countries) a silversmith, jeweler etc. can only buy silver with a content of 925 or 935.
Only for the factories making cutlery, silver with a content of 800 or 900 is made. 835 is not used anymore.

Hope that helps.

Sazikov 2000

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 06-03-2005 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for Fine Silver I think I remember from Scotts book is .999 fine...

Is that right Scott?


"Smaug"

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 06-03-2005 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-03-2005 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing that has not been mentioned here (it has been discussed several times in older threads) is that the silver on the surface, if unworn, usually is purer than that beneath, as one of the last stages in the finishing process ("pickling") results in the reduction in alloying elements and other impurities at the surface. If your jeweler did his testing by applying acid to the surface, it might have given a higheer eading than if the lower layers were exposed. This is why the smelters use a file to gouge an opening below the surface to apply the acid.

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Gaspare

Posts: 95
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 06-03-2005 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sazikov, thanks for the response!

Swarter, The rings I had tested half were in excellent condition and others in worn/knocked around condition. I was so sure the pieces were fakes I didn't mind when the Jeweler mentioned he'd have to put a small nick /file drag on the inside of band. When I came back he said they were all 925 sterling.

So what I'm gathering from this is that the 835 is not possible to obtain and the 800 is possible but not probable. That these pieces are made to decieve. The collectors of such pieces really might have to go the extra mile [testing] to be satisfied of authenticity.

Thank you all very much for the help. , G.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-04-2005 01:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect that 835 can be obtained; all that is required is a willingness to pay for it. The simple formula of 15% copper and 85% silver is not that hard to do. On the other hand, I have experienced acid testing as endlessly unreliable.

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