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tline3open  Continental Marks, plus Diana

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Author Topic:   Continental Marks, plus Diana

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 01-17-2006 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Someone approached me last week with a number of pieces of Continental silver, and asked me about their origin. I looked over the pieces and inspected their marks, but could recognize only one mark on one piece... The pieces clearly belonged together, but only one of them bore the stamp of the Austro-Hungarian Diana in a pentagon, indicating .800 quality. Each piece, however, did bear two marks; one a small and somewhat elongated hexagon, inside of which was perhaps a small animal figure, though too small to say definitively, even with a loupe-- In the lower left of the hexagon shape was what appeared to be a letter W-- In the upper right seemed to be a number 4. The other mark was an oak leaf and acorn. I perused Tardy, and while there were a number of such acorn-and-leaf marks, they seemed mostly backwards, that is, the acorn was on the wrong side of the leaf.

I imagine that one of these marks is an assay mark, and the other a maker's mark. However, I couldn't account for the appearance of the Dianakopf on only one piece... It's a mystery to me.

While we discussed the pieces, however, the gentleman expressed the desire to find other similar pieces (of the same handle decoration)... I knew where he was going with this, but I disappointed him by telling him that these pieces are likely isolated examples, and while there were probably more such pieces made, they were not likely mass-produced in the same sense of patterned flatware of large American firms.

I hope I was right in telling him this. Frankly, I'm only just learning about Continental silver and its makers, and I really don't know how extensively the European firms mass-produced their work, or whether they made any market out of patterned flatware. Might anyone educate me?

And if anyone can make anything out of those marks above, that would be great, too.... I know it's better to have a picture, but at this point I'm working only from memory. If I find the time, I'll post a simple drawing.

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Posts: 254
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 01-17-2006 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sazikov2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Look at page 76/Tardy /Austria/local fabrication 800/1000 for the years 1921/22.

Dianakopf local fabrication for the years 1866-1922.

The oak leaf with acorn is the trade mark of: V. C. Dub, Silberwarenfabrik Wien VII, Zieglergasse 65.

The European firms (Austria,Germany) mass-produced their work like all the firms in the world - different taste, different customers, different style and design - and different price.

Sazikov 2000

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Posts: 204
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 01-18-2006 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kayvee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is more information about the maker from “Viennese Silver.” Vincenz Carl Dub (also written Dubb),1852-1922, took over his father Thomas Dub’s silversmith business in 1889 and turned it into one of the leading silver flatware manufacturers of the day in Austria.
Because Dub was a major manufacturer, I’d suggest your client check that large internet auction site regularly, both worldwide and for Austria, not forgetting the Wanted to Buy Now feature. Also I’d consult the online catalogues of that large Central European auction house based in Vienna. They had a specialized silver auction earlier this month, and one coming up in April or May. Placing a classified ad in the Austrian antiques magazines might yield results. With patience he may get lucky in finding matching pieces for his set.

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Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 01-19-2006 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much to sazikov2000 and Kayvee. I'll be sure to forward this advice to the man who posed the questions to me. Knowing now what I do, I'll be sure to answer such questions a little more accurately in the future. Also, I hope perhaps one day I'll return the favor to you both with something you hadn't before known.

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 02-07-2006 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Via two e-mails from new member efuerst100:

The item posted by "IJP", dated 1-19-2006, asks about Continental Marks with Diana Head.
Here's my advice for your consideration for forwarding to this member/forum:
"I wonder if the "4" is actually an "A" which is the letter code for Vienna. Similarly, I wonder if the stylized "W" might be a "3" suggesting a silver content of "800". For Austrian silver between 1872 and 1922, I believe that "1" stands for 950 silver, "2" stands for 900 silver, "3" for 800 and "4" for 750. For that matter, if you are reading the "4" is really a"4" and not an "A" then perhaps the "4" on your piece is merely denoting 750 silver." Could you post a photo of the marks on items?
On further thought, the pieces might be Hungarian, not Austrian. From 1937-1965, Hungarian silver used an elongated hexagon with the Head of Diana as a silver mark. Look at "Silver Marks of the World", Page 121, for an illustration.

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Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 02-08-2006 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To efuerst100:

Thanks for your input. The marks were in fact as sazikov2000 explained. They are the marks for Austrian silver 1921-22, on page 76 of Tardy's International Hallmarks on Silver.

This is a separate mark from the Dianakopf, which I did find on one of these pieces.

See the referenced page in Tardy to view the mark about which I was inquiring.

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