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Author Topic:   Nuremberg spoon
tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-27-2006 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I bought this spoon at an antiques market in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany this past weekend. Tardy lists this style of "N" as "early 19th c." It also contains the 13 Loth mark (.812 silver). I am curious about the other mark. Wyler indicates that letters were used to designate the city's assayers by year. An "S" was in use for 1815, from what I can gather form Wyler. (Here is where his indexing and cross-referencing drives me crazy.) Does my conclusion seem reasonable, or is the "S" a maker's mark? The punch did not make a full impression, but it does not look as though any letters are missing from it.

Also, the side view indicates that the top decorative piece was attached to the body of the spoon after the spoon was made. Was this practice common? Is this a "married" piece with parts from two time periods?

Finally, what is the term for joining the bowl of the spoon to the handle as shown in the photo with the hallmarks?

Thanks,
Tom

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-27-2006 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Nuremberg date letters in Wyler (and Rosenberg, from which they are taken) are wildly inaccurate. Not their fault, really; there has never been a good study of Nuremberg silversmiths -- at least those after the early 18th century. Fortunately, this situation is about to be rectified with the forthcoming publication of a research project conducted by the Germanischen Nationalmuseum.

The familiar (to me, anyway) maker’s mark “S in a shield” -- as it is undoubtedly is; there was no date letter S -- will very probably be identified therein. Until that time, I can tell you that Dr. Karin Tebbe, one of the project compilers, informs me that the cursive "N" mark here (also inaccurately dated in Rosenberg/Wyler) was used 1820 – ca. 1868.

As for the date letters, until 1767 the Nuremberg assayers used a wax seal instead of a punch. As this invited, for obvious reasons, some problems with proving an item's quality at a later date, a letter mark was introduced in 1767. There were two assayers working simultaneously, each serving a term of four years, unless his term was cut short by illness, death, etc. One assayer used a capital Latin letter, the other a lowercase Gothic letter. Unfortunately a precise list of assayers and their terms has not survived, but Dr. Tebbe – by careful study of dated pieces and surviving guild records – has been able to reconstruct a much more accurate list of Nuremberg date letters:

Capital Latin letters, in a circle:
A: 1767-1769
B: 1769-1773
C: 1773-1777
D: 1777-1781
E: 1781-1785
F: 1785-1789
G: 1789-1793
H: 1793-1797
I: 1795-1799
K: 1799-1803
L: 1803-1807
M: 1805-1808
N: 21-23 Mar 1808
O: from 23 Mar 1808

Lowercase Gothic letters, in a circle
a: 1767-1771
b: 1771-1775
c: 1775-1779
d: 1779-1783
e: 1783-1787
f: 1787-1791
g: 1791-1795
h: 1795-1795?
i: 1797-1801
k: 1801-1805
l: 1805?
m: 1805-1808
n: 1807-1808

The date letter sequence was abandoned in 1808 after the dissolution of the Holy Roman empire and Nuremberg passed to the Kingdom of Bavaria.

As for the applied decoration, this was certainly not an uncommon practice in Germany from about 1815 onwards; Peter Bruckmann & Söhne of Heilbronn made a whole line of prefabricated silver medallions and appliqués for sale to smaller silversmiths to enhance their “hand made” flatware.

Given all this, I would date your spoon to around the second quarter of the 19th century.

Hope this helps!

P.S.: Happy Mardi Gras, y'all!

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Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think it is a married spoon. a silversmith can explain this better than I can, but basically, the handle and bowl were made using different methods. The handle looks to me stamped with a large press (spindelpresse in German, don't know the english term, also used to stamp coins or medals), although a detailed photograph could help to establish this for certain. The silversmith would have had different sets of model stamps, to use for different decorations on the handles. The bowl is made separatly, then joined together. Why not make the whole piece? This way you can use the decoration for different items of cutlery without needing a different 'matrice' for each item. Secondly, this was probably someone who didn't make large amounts of the same spoons, otherwise he would have used a 'laminoir' to make his spoons, which would than have been in one piece.

As often pictures of manufacturing say more than words, so I am not sure this is clear.

Raf

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gentlemen,

Thanks for your thorough and helpful responses.

Raf,your expalantion is very clear indeed. I will post a close up of the attached piece later this evening.

Blackstone, very interesting. I will check out this study since I can read German. Your date range sounds right on target, as usual.
On an unrelated subject, how are things going in New Orleans? The Mardi Gras celebrations are heartening.

Tom

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outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
tmockait,
I wish I could travel around as much as you do!

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, although most of it is work. I get to see some very interesting places, but I am thoroughly sick of airplanes!

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I too am eagerly awaiting the Nuremberg book. Now if only someone would do an equally comprehensive study of some of the other “neglected” German centers, like Dresden, Leipzig & Stuttgart. These cities, like Nuremberg, had their heyday in the 18th C., and most studies of their marks cover the 19th century briefly, if at all. Now that we are in the 21st century, some of these cities are starting to get their due, and I – being the 19th century nut that I am – find it terribly exiting.

Thanks, too, for your asking how things are down here. [Warning: off-topic ramblings forthcoming.] The news reports you see are really very accurate. New Orleans is still quite wounded and things are by no means “back to normal.” The population is a third of what it was, less than half the businesses have reopened, some 250, 000 homes are still uninhabitable and every person, every day, has reminders of the terrible destruction. This is not to say that things are not improved, but it’s a matter of degree. Mail service is now mostly reliable (delivery 4-5 times a week, rather than once or twice), a few more groceries and pharmacies are open (though most not every day nor after around 7 pm), debris – in the inhabitable neighborhoods – greatly reduced (though every day new piles of trash appear here & there as residents return).

As for Mardi Gras, I’ll say this: I was all for it. The city needs the economic boost, those who have lost much need a break, and those who fared well need the celebration. Those who are not from here should understand that the irony of frivolous revelry in the midst of deep sorrow is not a revelation to us. (Newscasters take note: you are NOT the first to point this dichotomy, not by a long shot.) Indeed, it is the very heart of Carnival, which proceeds the lenten season, after all; the quiet solemnity of Ash Wednesday after Shrove Tuesday is one of the most remarkable aspects of carnival that goes unreported by the media. But the most unexpected benefit of this Mardi Gras to me – and I expect that only New Orleanians will understand this – was that dancing in costume at a ball or screaming for throws at a parade was the most “normal” I have felt in New Orleans in six months. Everyone’s daily schedule has been so radically altered– waiting in lines, finding the one store that is open late, getting to and from work, dealing with contractors, SBA, FEMA, etc. – that the traditions of carnival (if it’s Sunday it must be Bacchus) are reassuring and a welcome return to predictable.

So Happy Mardi Gras once again to all, and we’ll see you at Jazz Fest.

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IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2006 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
blakstone! Happy Mardi Gras to you, too!

It's already Fat Tuesday evening, only a few hours left of Carnival, but I'm exhausted... Feel free to contact me if you like. I had been looking forward to getting together to talk and share Katrina stories. Sorry, everyone, but I have had no luck reaching blakstone via e-mail. Happy Mardi Gras to everyone!

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-10-2006 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Nuremburg spoon discussed and pictured in this thread ( Shouldered OEP (again!)) may be of interest here.

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bumping this thread to let members know that Vol. I of Nürnberger Goldschmiedekunst has finally been released. (Vol. II came out last fall, being a collection essays covering the history of Nuremburg silversmithing, to accompany an exhibition at the GNM). Vol. I is itself in two parts: Book 1 is an encyclopedia of Nuremburg makers and marks, and Book 2 is a photographic survey of Nuremburg silver.

Book 1 has an alphabetical listing of over 1,000 makers, each entry accompanied by a biography, photographs of known marks, and lists of apprentices, representative works and references; all this information is cross-referenced by an index of the marks and a chronological list of makers. Also included is a section on the various city, assay master, fineness and other official marks. Particularly helpful is a section illustrating around sixty known false, imitation or pseudo-marks based on genuine Nuremburg marks. A glossary and meticulous bibliography complete the first part.

Book 2 contains 782 black and white photographs of Nuremburg silver and gold pieces, each cross-referenced with the maker and marks in Book 1. The photos are arranged by category, including a large section of Judaica, but most prominent are the fanciful goblets and other mannerist concoctions so firmly associated with Nuremburg. Indeed, if any fault may be found with this half of the book, it is the overwhelming focus on the late 16th and early 17th centuries. That was Nuremburg’s golden age (pardon the pun) to be sure, but where, for instance, are the eccentric coffin- and fiddle-handled spoons so peculiar to Nuremburg in the 1830’s & 40’s?

But that’s quibbling; this is a masterly and long, long overdue reference. The EUR 75 price tag (with shipping to the US, about $160) is frankly quite reasonable in light of the cost other comparable texts. (The new, revised edition of Helmut Selig’s comparable work on Augsburg silversmiths which came out last October goes for a whopping EUR 198.) And trust me: when this book goes out of print, its price will become astronomical. But be warned: this is not a coffee-table book. It is a serious and scholarly reference work, invaluable to the study of Nuremberg silver, but of very limited use to the casual collector. I would suggest that such silverphiles encourage their local library, university or museum to acquire a copy so that all in their community may have access to this impressive research.

And – as I predicted – the maker’s mark in this thread has been identified as that of Johann Samuel Schoenberg (ca. 1776-1852; Master 1805). He retired in 1845 and his workshop was assumed by his former apprentice Johann Wilhelm Nusselt (1817-1870). See Nürnberger Goldschmiedekunst, nos. 812 and 624, respectively!

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2008 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blackstone,

Thanks so much for the information on the new publication and my spoon!

Tom

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