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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Russian Hallmark??? Does Anyone Know?
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| Author | Topic: Russian Hallmark??? Does Anyone Know? |
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bkeaty Posts: 4 |
posted 12-19-2004 01:25 AM
  
I have searched everywhere, and can not find this hallmark on any web site. Any suggestions? IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 12-19-2004 01:17 PM
Well, I can say that the mark isn't Russian, since the letters are Latin and not Cyrillic. The 84 isn't the Russian 84 zolotnik mark but "84 Gr" which has to mean 84 grams. This is a silverplate quality mark usually indicating the total amount of silver in a specified number of pieces - generally one dozen each of table spoons and forks (24 total) - would contain 84 grams of pure silver. It probably is continental, but you can rule out France as a country of origin, as they had very strict laws governing the shape of platers' marks and the lozenge shape here would be a particularly egregious violation, that shape being reserved for solid silver. I wouldn't think German either, but I have no basis for that other than instinct. Anyone else have any ideas? IP: Logged |
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Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 12-19-2004 02:40 PM
I'll confess to having been the person who thought it was Russian originally, although that was only because I knew Russians used an 84 mark. I now stand corrected! We can rule out Britain purely on the use of the metric system and I would note that it doesn't seem like any Silverplate mark used in Britain that I have come across either. Hmmm, I'm stuck. Help? Waylander IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 12-19-2004 02:57 PM
Well, if blakstone has no information, I guess it is safe to specullate! I do not believe I have seen a halberd in a mark before. For those who do not know, a halberd is a battle implement dating from the 15th and 16th Centuries - a kind of spear point with a hatchet-like blade attached, that would have been carried on the end of a pike. I suppose they might have been retained for ceremonial use by an honor guard someplace. As such, it could be a town symbol with maker's initials added as a maker's mark, or a town mark with assayer's initials. Another point thah may or moy not be relevane, is thah in heraldry, arms granted to a woman are not borne on a typical shield in a coat of arms, but are displayed in a lozenge-shaped reserve,. so that this mark could even be an owner's mark or "house mark." And. of course, it could be nothing more than a mnufacturer's trade mark. These random thoughts may provide someone clue as to where to look. It is an intriguing mark. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 12-19-2004).] IP: Logged |
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bkeaty Posts: 4 |
posted 12-19-2004 03:39 PM
I would have included these my first post but did not think it was going to stump everyone. The marks are on the front spoon part of the spoon. If that makes sense, and I also included the spoons design. IP: Logged |
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Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 |
posted 12-19-2004 10:02 PM
What are the small letters beside the S A mark? "St" or "Ste" suggest a male or female saint in French, recalling places such as Saint Armand etc. IP: Logged |
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bkeaty Posts: 4 |
posted 12-19-2004 10:38 PM
I thought it was another A, but looking at it again there could be two small letters. The mark is so tiny that I can barley make it out. Does the style of the spoon look familiar to anyone? Someone had suggested to me that there might be a certain country that uses the style of the oval on the handle. I do not know what it is called, so sorry for my improper terms. Would anyone care to guess if this "might" be old? IP: Logged |
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akgdc Posts: 289 |
posted 12-20-2004 04:05 PM
Actually, I'd beg to differ with Blakstone -- the "84Gr" in a rectangle appears to me a typically French silverplate mark. And many French silverplaters - such as Christofle, for one -- used marks in diamond-shaped cartouches (usually slightly different in size and shape from the silversmiths' lozenges). The pattern of the spoon is also typically French, as is the placement of the marks in the bowl. I don't recognize the Ste. A and halberd mark, but would expect your spoon to date to the early decades of the last century. IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 12-20-2004 05:33 PM
On second inspection, akgdc is absolutely right. The orientation of the letters threw me off, but the mark's outline is perfectly square, which is the legally required shape for French maker's marks on silvered (or gilt) base metal items . Given that, I concur that it probably French after all. Mea Culpa! IP: Logged |
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bkeaty Posts: 4 |
posted 03-09-2005 01:47 PM
I have been told that this spoon is French and the makers mark is Société des Argentiers..... She is still searching for the exact name but believes it starts with that. Ring a bell or sound familiar to anyone? IP: Logged |
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