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Author Topic:   Help wanted with silver marks
trudy van veghel

Posts: 4
Registered: Oct 2005

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trudy van veghel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Board,

Since 2 years I own a silver table canon It is really beautiful .I tried to identify the marks but did not succeed.Maybe someone can help me.

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hallo Trudy! In order for anyone to help on this you're going to need to post some photos, or at least good drawings of the marks. You'll find detailed instructions on how to do this on the site's FAQ pages and through the "Please Read Before You Post" link that's near the top of every page. I recommend a close-up of the marks and a photo of the object itself, as style can help in identification. And remember to make the photos no larger than 490 pixels wide, to fit on the pages here!

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trudy van veghel

Posts: 4
Registered: Oct 2005

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trudy van veghel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks yes I was planning to do the pics on the next page but I already pushed the submit button.Here are the pics.


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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to the forum. Both the crest and the cross are those of the order of the Knights of Malta. They were a crusading order originally called the Knights of Saint John or Knights Hospitallers. They hosted and safeguarded pilgrims to the Holy Land. When Christian outposts in the East fell first to the Caliphate and then to the Ottoman Empire the knights retreated westward, settleing in Malta in 1530. There they defended the island against the Turks. They remained in being until they were disolved in 1798, having become a thuroughly disolute order serving no useful purpose.

I don't know, however, if the marks mean your piece was made in Malta or when it was made.

Good luck,
Tom

[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 10-11-2005).]

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome Trudy!

Thank you for posting your photos, but those are just decorations on your cannon. I believe they are meant to represent the kinds of crests that old cannons used to have on their barrels to signify which country they were made in. If these were on a real cannon, those would be the important markings that would tell you where the cannon was made and who was the king or queen of that country when it was made. For a small model of a cannon that could have been made anywhere and at any point in time, they do not give any clues.

What we need to see are the marks that a silversmith or silver assay office adds to a piece of silver. These markings are often found on the bottom of an object, or along an edge somewhere, and they are very, very small in size. There will often be 3 or 4 such markings found next to each other.

Does your cannon have these? If it does, then we may be able to help you determine where and when it was made, and the kind of metal it is made from. Sometimes we can also help you determine the company or the silversmith who made it.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 10-11-2005).]

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Trudy,

Kimos observation suggests that the canon might also be a miniature replica of a real one. Such items are often sold as souvenirs at historic sites. Can provide a picture of the whole item? Also, more info on how and where you acquired it would also help.

Tom

[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 10-11-2005).]

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trudy van veghel

Posts: 4
Registered: Oct 2005

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trudy van veghel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so far ;I already had made pics. of the hallmarks but the file was to large Here are some smaller pics.

The canon barrel itself is 10 inch long (25 cm)


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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Trudy,

You have a very accurate miniature replica of an 18th naval cannon. A real gun would have been made of brass. The stair-step gun carriage (wooden platform on which the gun is mounted) was typical of that era. Ropes attached to it absorbed the gun's recoil to prevent it crashing across the deck of ship during battle. Such guns were also placed on the ramparts of fortifications such as the forts guarding the harbor at Malta (anywhere space for recoil would have been a problem). I think your cannon reproduces an actual piece used to defend the island. I walked around the harbor defenses when I was there.

I did some research and found that the cross mark was used to designated silver items made in Malta, but I don't have a detailed enough source to tell you more than than that. Malta is still known for equisite silver work. I bought some very nice filagree crosses when I visited there last year.

I suspect your piece may have been made to commemorate an event. Is there any sign that a plaque or plate was ever attached to the gun carriage or the stand on which it sits?

Tom

[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 10-11-2005).]

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trudy van veghel

Posts: 4
Registered: Oct 2005

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trudy van veghel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Tom,

Thanks for the info and yes there once was a little plaque attached to the stand But is gone now.

By the look of it the item was made in the nineteenth century (This was told by the former owner)He told me this was probably an official government present for officers or high ranking officials.

The weels and canonballs are silver too.

I never saw anything like this before.

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ozfred

Posts: 87
Registered: Sep 2002

iconnumber posted 10-11-2005 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozfred     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In 1920, with self government, Malta adopted 917 millims standard that was in use until 1972.

The arms appear to those of either Grand Master Jean de la Valette Gallus 21/8/1557 - 21/8/1568 or Jean de la Cassiere Gallus 30/1/1572 - 21/12/1591 but check the Knights site for comparison.

Am unable to make out the maker's initials.

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