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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 An odd piece
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| Author | Topic: An odd piece |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-25-2005 03:24 PM
  
[26-0678] Here's one of the odder pieces from my collection. In form it's a small bucket (3.4 inches high with the loops, 2.85 inches across at the top), fairly crudely hammered but rather nice in overall appearance. By appearance I'd guess South America; it's not unlike the baldecito used in the Amazon by travellers on horseback to get drinking water (those have a silver chain to lower them down, and the one example I've handled was much heavier than this piece). But the marks look more like Continental: The maker's mark (?) appears to be R*C; what I would take to be the standard mark is a right-facing woman's head, facing a letter N that looks to be overlaid by a fish, above an 8: It's reminiscent of Austria/Hungary, but not right for that. Anyone recognize it? IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 09-26-2005 11:13 AM
Less well-known than France's Minerva and Austria's Diana, here we have the "Testina di Partenope": Head of Partenope. It was used in the Italian former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies 1824-1878, roughly between the fall of Napoleon and the unification of Italy. The two kingdoms were Naples and Sicily, but Sicily used a different mark: the head of Ceres, which faced left. That means your cup is Neapolitan. The "N" in the mark stands not for Napoli but "nostrali [ours]" as opposed to an E (for "estero [foreign]" or imported items) or an "+" (for liturgical items), both of which can appear in the mark. The bar across the N is the identification mark of the assay master Gennaro Mannara, working 1835-1863. The "8" indicates the silver standard of 833.33. ("7" for 916.66 - was also possible.) R*C is the maker's mark, which I'm pretty sure I've encountered before. I have a comprehensive list of Neapolitan makers' marks, but unfortunately I am away from my library at the moment. I'll be sure to look it up in when I get home. (Which, I dearly hope, will be soon.) Until then, I can say definitely Naples, 1835-1863. Hope this helps! IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-26-2005 05:45 PM
Thanks, blakstone! Somehow I thought you might be the person to come up with this answer.... Any thoughts as to the purpose of this item? I don't know if the Italians had the same tradition of horseriders' cups that could be dropped down into a stream? Or maybe it was in the vein of the old Saturday Night Live routine, a drool bucket for an old man! IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-26-2005 05:47 PM
PS: I do hope you're able to get back home soon -- and not just for a selfish interest in more detail on this item. All best, IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 09-27-2005 01:52 AM
Even though it is not marked with a cross, I am wondering if this is not a "stoup," a small cup used to contain Holy Water. Most were a little bigger than yours, large enough to hold an aspergil, or sprinkler (the smallest I found was 4 1/2 inches deep). They usually had a hanle ro chain attached on each side (attached to the two rings in your piece?). However, it was customary for ordinary people to obtain Holy Water from a Baptism and keep it in their homes for its perceived spiritual properties. Could these personal containers have mimiced the larger vessels used in Mass? Tom IP: Logged |
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 09-27-2005 04:21 AM
These small holy water buckets for personal use tend to have the same form and decoration as the larger ones. I find that this decoration is a bit too 'frivolous' for a religious piece, don't you? Although it is rather large, could it have been used in connection with a table fountain? Sometimes they come with a little beaker that is to be hanged under the tap, to avoid water dripping unto the table. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 09-27-2005 11:05 AM
Raf, Good point about the design, although some I have seen have no design at all. Your explanation seems a bit more plausible though. Actually, I have never seen the contraption (no offense) you describe. A silver table fountain?! I guess in every age some people do run out of things to spend money on! Tom IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 09-27-2005 11:44 AM
The workmanship also isn't of the quality that I would expect -- perhaps wrongly? -- for a religious piece. The lines, rim, and base edge are all uneven, for example, and the base is rather concave. It's well made in the sense that it's properly raised, but the finishing work lacks finesse and detail. But perhaps that's typical of mid-19th-century Neapolitan work? I can't say I've ever handled another piece, that I can remember. IP: Logged |
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 09-28-2005 06:31 AM
Tom, Maybe table fountain was a too litterate translation: a samovar is probably a better term. Especially with the 19th century models, although it is rare to find it still together, a samovar often came with a little bucketshaped recepient that one hangs under the tap of the samovar: if it leaks, the drops fall into the beaker. in the art deco period, I have seen similar recepients, but these stand on the table and don't hang anymore. Unfourtunatly I don't have such a 'contraption' in my possession, hence I can't send a picture! IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 09-28-2005 11:42 AM
Raf, Russian history was my graduate minor, so I am familiar with samovar's. Thanks for the clarification. Tom IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 07-19-2006 10:22 AM
Resurrecting 'this old thread'.... On a recent trip to the Met I saw a Carolingian situla (literally, bucket), 9th-century France, of carved ivory, that is precisely this form. It was described there as used for sprinkling holy water upon the faithful in procession -- a different term, but the same idea as Tom's suggestion of a "stoup". I presume in either case an aspergil (holy water sprinkler) would have done the actual distribution, with the situla used to carry the water to recharge the aspergil. Looking on the internet, many of the situlae I see curve in at the top, which would help prevent slopping of the holy water in a procession. But on the 'net I also saw a 15th-century German one -- bronze, apparently, but of similar form -- hanging on a wall bracket. The decoration is still of question for a religious piece, I think. Internet examples have many styles of decoration, from plain to ornate, but I saw none similar to this. And the size is perhaps a little small for a situla; Raf suggests it's a bit large for a table fountain receiver (an object which I confess remains something of a mystery to me, and the few examples of such fountains I found on the 'net were much finer pieces than this). So for now I guess it remains 'an odd piece'. [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 07-19-2006).] IP: Logged |
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