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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Swedish hallmark question
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| Author | Topic: Swedish hallmark question |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-25-2005 04:24 PM
  
[07-0476, 26-0292] I have bought a very nice Swedish gilt lined silver tankard,the hinged cover with cast details and a thumb piece over a cylindrical body with various banded decoration on a spreading circular foot rim, marked with three crowns and SAM P-N and the letter L and X6 (inverted), 10 ½ inch(26.7cm) high, 28oz I interpret these marks as follows: Does anyone know the makers details and why the 'S' is absent? Many thanks for any comment! IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-27-2005 02:29 AM
Is it rubbed out or deliberately omitted? If the latter, my guess (and it is just a guess) is that perhaps the omission indicates a piece of second quality. Tom IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-27-2005 05:00 AM
Hi Tom and thanks. I cannot discern any thinning or marks that would show any erasure. Is there a date from which the 'S' would have always been applied? Regards, IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-27-2005 05:06 AM
Hi Tom, Thank you. I cannot see any thinning or marks which might indicate an erasure. IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-27-2005 08:16 AM
" ... perhaps the omission indicates a piece of second quality ..." What is your reasoning for this surmise ? IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 03-27-2005 12:18 PM
I can't help with the maker, but I don't think the missing "S" is a problem. I'll have to double check my references, but I'm pretty sure the "S" for silver articles wasn't mandated in Sweden until 1912. IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-27-2005 01:35 PM
Thank you for your replies. Any idea whom the maker might be? If I make it to the Mitchell Library in Glasgow I will have a dig there - may be some time before I can though! Can anyone recommend a book on Swedish silver and its marks? In the interim I will make sure I refresh the page several times after making a post so I don't do any duplicates! Thank you, IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-27-2005 11:17 PM
Arg(um)entum, I posted my response before the hallmarks were posted, so I made an educated guess based on contemporary experience. Contemporary metal articles (e.g., Canonsburg cookware) have distinguishing marks to indicate second quality material sold in their outlet store. They do this so that people will not "return" the seconds for the real thing. I visited the Delf potter works last fall, and they adulterate the Royal Delft mark for their seconds as well. In the absence of any other evidence, I was merely making an educated guess. Regards, IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-27-2005 11:45 PM
Under Swedish law the 'Three Crowns' mark alone is only allowed on gold. When placed on silver it must be accompanied by the 'S'. To think that a maker or even retailer would erase the 'S' is certainly imaginative. And a guess it certainly is but a decidedly wild one. [This message has been edited by Arg(um)entum (edited 03-30-2005).] IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-28-2005 08:33 AM
Arg(um)entum and Tom, If blacstone is correct and the 'S' didn't appear until 1912 then that aspect is explained at the tankard is clearly 1900. Now who is the maker and where was it made? If I can find out I will let you know, although this will not be for several weeks! Regards, IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-28-2005 09:23 AM
"If blakstone is correct ..." ??  He is always correct. Your piece was assayed at Linköping so it probably was made somewhere in that area. As to the maker I am clueless. [This message has been edited by Arg(um)entum (edited 03-28-2005).] IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-28-2005 12:33 PM
I am always troubled when I see things like a double struck mark - especially a key one like the three crowns. The upside down X6 date code is also bothersome to my sensibilities. And the difference in style between the maker's marking and the other three marks adds to my discomfort on this tankard. It may very well be right as rain, but given that spurious hallmarks are not uncommon on higher value objects, if I were the owner I would want to show it in person to a Swedish silver expert who could examine it closely to set my mind at ease. IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-28-2005 01:26 PM
Good advice, Kimo! The two mishaps in the marks can be explained away by a bad day. But the maker is a puzzler. I don't like to raise doubts unless the case is clear or a critical view is solicited. Here I thought that Steve is aggressive enough in his approach to research tnat if there is a problem he will discover it in short order himself. But I have to agree that your caution is very appropriate. IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 03-28-2005 01:47 PM
Good point and one in my naivety I had overlooked! The hallmark on the body has been stamped twice for the maker - the rest is OK! Not such a good photo: IMG]http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/05/26-0292-41360841a.jpg[/IMG] However, fortunately I find the piece so wonderful I'm not sure I would mind too much - it makes for great interest! The idea of getting an expert second opinion I like. Thank you, regards, IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-28-2005 05:39 PM
Thanks for sharing this interesting piece. Tom IP: Logged |
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Megasen Posts: 2 |
posted 10-27-2005 08:11 AM
This is not the Swedish "Cat's Paw" mark. The crowns are wrong. This is what it's supposed to look like: IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 10-27-2005 10:11 AM
Courtesy of Holmquist's Svenskt Silversmide, the mark is for the firm of Samuel Petterson (1833-1903). Samuel Petterson took over the Johan Wållers shop in Linköping in late 1858 or early 1859. His son Thure Petterson (1860-1935; worked in Norrköpping 1889-1898) began working with his father in 1898, under the business name Sam. Petterson. They were taken over by K. G. Markström (of Uppsala) in 1907, became a joint-stock company in 1917, and lasted until 1965. Personally I don't see a problem with the crowns; they seem well within the range of pieces I've seen. And the double-struck marks don't particularly bother me here. Always risky judging from photos, but the piece looks right to me. And quite nice, as well. IP: Logged |
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croftcroyne Posts: 11 |
posted 10-28-2005 09:43 AM
Dear FWG, Thank you very much indeed for your assistance I (was) awaiting international hallmarks in silver on loan which you have now made redundant! Regards, IP: Logged |
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The 'S' was not required up to and including 1912. In 1913 it was introduced with some other changes to the law.