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Author Topic:   17th century? silver box
peterfwg

Posts: 3
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 02-27-2005 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peterfwg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[08-0288]

My wife recently gave me a lovely small silver box. It a repousse, octagonal box with putti on all sides engaged in various activities and is 1” high and 1˝ " in diameter. I have an interest in silver but am not well versed in older marks, and it seems to me that the box might possibly be 17th century? The hallmarks are the wider crowned leopard's head for London, the lion passant (seemingly the older, crude form with its paw raised high) and what I assume is the maker's mark - a dolphin or porpoise. There is no date letter. A few questions please:

  • is the box more than likely 17th century (hopefully not a forgery!)?
  • is it a pill box?
  • does anyone recognize the maker's mark?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.



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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 12:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I doubt anyone in the 17th c. took pills. A snuff or spice box may be a better guess. The lion and leopard's head fit the 17th c. pattern, but I am puzzled by the absence of the date mark. Same for the makers mark, which I thought were usually initials. Some 16th silver did lack date letters. Hope this helps.

Tom

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dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hanau (or Dutch) pseudo-hallmarks?

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While a crowned lion passant like this one was used for a few years after the introduction of the sterling mark in the 1540's, the Lion's head city mark is almost certainly incorrect - the face is entirely too human and the crown is heraldicly incorrect. Makers' marks in the 16th and 17th Centuries were not initials, but symbols of various sorts. These marks, however, appear to be later imitations (rather than forgeries), most probably Continental, as suggested in the previous post.

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peterfwg

Posts: 3
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peterfwg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks to everybody for their help and guidance. It gives me some direction. I will just have to take an afternoon off work and attend the Victoria & Albert Museum Silver Collection "identification" day here in London!

Regards,
Peter Grant

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akgdc

Posts: 289
Registered: Sep 2001

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Swarter -- these are late-19th-century Continental pseudo-hallmarks, definitely not genuine English marks (of the 17th c or any other era). Peter, if you search for the word "Hanau" in these forums, you will find considerable discussion of such pieces.

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 03-01-2005 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This discussion has me wondering: how far back do pseudo marks go? If hallmarks were intended to insure purity, then faking them must have been a problem from the beginning as well?

Tom

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