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Chinese export?

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Author	Topic: Chinese export?
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-10-2003 10:09 PM [01-1005] I ran across this on the SAS Silver Forum: ". . . the hallmarks on the bottom of the candy basket are shown in the image below. Both of these are heavily covered in repousee designs of people in party/feasting settings and with harvest fruits and vegetables. They are both also reticulated with many cutouts enhancing the designs. The hallmarks on the bowl are in deep recesses and so are sharper than the ones on the candy dish, but they are spread out here and there on the bowl so I used the candy dish marks in the image since they are all together." My first thought was a Chinese export maker, but I have no references --can anyone identify it? IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-11-2003 07:03 AM Am wondering if the people depicted are asian or western? IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-11-2003 10:00 AM It is not listed in the Chinese export book and doesn't look like any export I have ever seen, do you have a picture of the piece? IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-11-2003 10:20 AM I went on the SAS forum, in the picture there it looks like fake repousse so my guess would be German psuedo hallmarks. IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-12-2003 08:09 AM Canada uses a right facing lion and some of thier marks look psuedo English. I think this may be an avenue worth pursuing. Also points out the need to see the whole piece and not just the marks. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-12-2003 10:20 AM I just received these from the owner. They do appear to be German/Dutch; fairly gaudy, but not unattractive. I have some additional close-ups if desired. IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-12-2003 11:43 AM Ugg! No more pictures please. That is German fake repousse. Fake marks. IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-12-2003 02:04 PM odd choice of marks tho from the one who made it. I would have thought they would have chosen more Europeanish marks. IP: Logged
FredZ Posts: 1070 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-12-2003 10:24 PM Interesting that the conclusion is that these are fake repousse. It was a bit hard for me to make that statement from the images. Most of the faux repousse I have seen is cast to look as if the design were in fact hammered out of relatively thin sheet. Often on these reproductions the inside of the bowl does not nessesarily follow the depressions and contours of the design on the outside of the bowl. The basket shown in the images does seem to have quite a bit of detail that might lead one to have a closer look to see if there are marks representative a blunt punch used to push out the area to be chased from the front. The images were not clear enough for me to tell what I was looking at and to make a decision as to how it was made. I have to agree that they are Germanic in design and do have that faux look to them. Erik, Perhaps you could send the additional images to me. They might reveal something. Fred [This message has been edited by FredZ (edited 03-12-2003).] IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-12-2003 11:01 PM Hi everyone. The two items with the odd hallmarks are mine. I will be happy to take closeups of any parts of them you would like if it will help you figure them out. Just let me know. In the meantime, here are two more photos, the first is the back side of the bowl behind one of the side panels that features harvest vegetables and the second photo is the front side of the same panel where you can see the details. IP: Logged
FredZ Posts: 1070 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-12-2003 11:09 PM I have seen the images and I am not convinced that these are faux repousse. They look pretty good. Perhaps they could have been machine stamped. I am not familiar enough with European silver. I see comb covers all the time with this same decoration and theme and these appear to be mass produced. Fred IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-13-2003 08:24 AM I will point out that some Hanau stuff is actually pretty well made, I would think the earlier stuff, but these just don't look like the hallmarks I've seen on that sort of stuff, but they certainly look punched from hand made stamps. IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-13-2003 09:39 AM The hallmarks in the bowl are less worn than the ones on the bottom of the basket since they are nestled here and there in the low spots among the high relief designs. Here are some images of them: IP: Logged
FredZ Posts: 1070 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-13-2003 12:55 PM I think these are valid pieces of Germanic origin and even though I am totally unfamiliar with the marks, they look pretty good. Not my taste in silver and still rather nicely done. I am not certain we will ever discover who made these items. I would suggest you compare the textured backgrounds of each of the items with a loope to see if they may have been made by the same tool. That may at least help identify that the person who made them may have been the same individual who stamped them. Have to had them tested for silver content? Fred IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-13-2003 09:05 PM I've not had them tested, but that is a good idea. I will try to get them tested this weekend and let you all know. IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-15-2003 03:08 PM Hello again. I've just returned from my local jewelery store to have these tested. The jeweler looked at the bowl and said that it cetainly felt and looked like high quality silver from last century with a lot of detail and like eveyone else has mentioned that it is not in the currently popular styles. He took it back to his workbench and tested it and came back and said that it tested as very high silver content, though he said he could not say whether is is 900 or 925 or 950 or such. IP: Logged

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