SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  Chinese export?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Chinese export?
wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 03-10-2003 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-1005]

I ran across this on the SAS Silver Forum:

". . . the hallmarks on the bottom of the candy basket are shown in the image below. Both of these are heavily covered in repousee designs of people in party/feasting settings and with harvest fruits and vegetables. They are both also reticulated with many cutouts enhancing the designs. The hallmarks on the bowl are in deep recesses and so are sharper than the ones on the candy dish, but they are spread out here and there on the bowl so I used the candy dish marks in the image since they are all together."

My first thought was a Chinese export maker, but I have no references --can anyone identify it?

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-11-2003 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Am wondering if the people depicted are asian or western?

IP: Logged

labarbedor

Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 03-11-2003 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for labarbedor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is not listed in the Chinese export book and doesn't look like any export I have ever seen, do you have a picture of the piece?

IP: Logged

labarbedor

Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 03-11-2003 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for labarbedor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I went on the SAS forum, in the picture there it looks like fake repousse so my guess would be German psuedo hallmarks.

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Canada uses a right facing lion and some of thier marks look psuedo English. I think this may be an avenue worth pursuing. Also points out the need to see the whole piece and not just the marks.

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just received these from the owner. They do appear to be German/Dutch; fairly gaudy, but not unattractive.

I have some additional close-ups if desired.

IP: Logged

labarbedor

Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for labarbedor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ugg! No more pictures please. That is German fake repousse. Fake marks.

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
odd choice of marks tho from the one who made it. I would have thought they would have chosen more Europeanish marks.

IP: Logged

FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting that the conclusion is that these are fake repousse. It was a bit hard for me to make that statement from the images. Most of the faux repousse I have seen is cast to look as if the design were in fact hammered out of relatively thin sheet.

Often on these reproductions the inside of the bowl does not nessesarily follow the depressions and contours of the design on the outside of the bowl.

The basket shown in the images does seem to have quite a bit of detail that might lead one to have a closer look to see if there are marks representative a blunt punch used to push out the area to be chased from the front.

The images were not clear enough for me to tell what I was looking at and to make a decision as to how it was made.

I have to agree that they are Germanic in design and do have that faux look to them.

Erik, Perhaps you could send the additional images to me. They might reveal something.

Fred

[This message has been edited by FredZ (edited 03-12-2003).]

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone. The two items with the odd hallmarks are mine. I will be happy to take closeups of any parts of them you would like if it will help you figure them out. Just let me know. In the meantime, here are two more photos, the first is the back side of the bowl behind one of the side panels that features harvest vegetables and the second photo is the front side of the same panel where you can see the details.

IP: Logged

FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-12-2003 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen the images and I am not convinced that these are faux repousse. They look pretty good. Perhaps they could have been machine stamped. I am not familiar enough with European silver. I see comb covers all the time with this same decoration and theme and these appear to be mass produced.

Fred

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-13-2003 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will point out that some Hanau stuff is actually pretty well made, I would think the earlier stuff, but these just don't look like the hallmarks I've seen on that sort of stuff, but they certainly look punched from hand made stamps.

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-13-2003 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The hallmarks in the bowl are less worn than the ones on the bottom of the basket since they are nestled here and there in the low spots among the high relief designs. Here are some images of them:

IP: Logged

FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 03-13-2003 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think these are valid pieces of Germanic origin and even though I am totally unfamiliar with the marks, they look pretty good.
Not my taste in silver and still rather nicely done. I am not certain we will ever discover who made these items.
I would suggest you compare the textured backgrounds of each of the items with a loope to see if they may have been made by the same tool. That may at least help identify that the person who made them may have been the same individual who stamped them. Have to had them tested for silver content?

Fred

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-13-2003 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've not had them tested, but that is a good idea. I will try to get them tested this weekend and let you all know.

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-15-2003 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello again. I've just returned from my local jewelery store to have these tested. The jeweler looked at the bowl and said that it cetainly felt and looked like high quality silver from last century with a lot of detail and like eveyone else has mentioned that it is not in the currently popular styles. He took it back to his workbench and tested it and came back and said that it tested as very high silver content, though he said he could not say whether is is 900 or 925 or 950 or such.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices