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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Sabatier flatware
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| Author | Topic: Sabatier flatware |
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hrobalabama unregistered |
posted 06-18-2002 09:39 PM
 
I have a set of Sabatier flatware of large serving spoon and fork and three dirrerent size carbon steel knives, all with sterling handles. I know Sabatier mfgs cutlery today and have been in business for many years(from 1830's) This hallmaark is : "Rue St Honore' 84 A Paris (and a hand under Paris.) I would appreciate any help with this hallmark ID IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-09-2003 08:54 PM
"Rue St Honore 84 A Paris" isn't a hallmark, but it could be a Sabatier location. Rue St. Honore is the street name (rue means street) and "a Paris" could mean "in Paris". [This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 03-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-09-2003 11:53 PM
" all with sterling handles From what do you deduce this? Are there additional marks to indicate it? If so, what are they? [This message has been edited by Arg(um)entum (edited 03-09-2003).] IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-10-2003 06:10 PM
Rue St. Hônoré is practically down the street from me. I Love Rue St. Hônoré !Stephen, are you sure about the 84? I dunno, but we live at 10, avenue Victor Hugo. In my experience here, the street addresses are different in that here, we put the street number and the "Rue" "Ave" "Blvd" or whatever before the street name. Before you can know it's "argent massif" - silver, you need to locate a mark on the handles either on the edge or on the neck if the handles are silver. The ever popular Tête de Minerve (head of Minerva) is the most common for larger objects after 1838, but there are assorted other heads that you might find including giraffe, bulldog, boar's head and crab (you might find one of them. Maybe the boar's head or crab, if the handles are hollow.) - and this is just to name a few. Be warned though, they are very, very tiny. I often mistake them for blemishes or pitting until I really clean the piece up and get out a X10 loop. The french take their marks very seriously. it's a nightmare to sort out!Are any of these your "hands under Paris?" ------------------ IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-10-2003 06:36 PM
Is there a problem posting the Tête de Minerve? Typo? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-10-2003 06:53 PM
Doobees: of course you're right about the address. Sorry, I was thinking of Germany, where they do put the number after the name. Could the "84" be a plating quality mark? IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-10-2003 07:06 PM
Doobees -- regarding your photo -- la page que vous avez demandée n'existe pas -- are you sure you spelled the name of the file correctly? - peut-etre un problem avec la circonflexe? IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-11-2003 11:13 AM
Stephen, votre français, c'était absolument impeccable - Quelle surprise! You were right about the accent. Worked just fine once I got rid of it.... I'll keep them out of the photo names in the future As for the 84??? The only reference to the number 84 that I've come across has been for Russia, where the 84 is a thousandth's conversion that = 875 silver. If I can find a phone # for Sabatier Mfg. I'll call and ask them. In France, I generally see the plating quality to be in Gr (ex: 6Gr 2Gr or whatever...) I'm not at all saying that it's Russian, their 84 is usually teamed up with a head (and anyway, "Sabatier Mfg...") ------------------ IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-11-2003 11:40 AM
So far my search for a # has led me to a phone number in NY (516 794-3355, where the Sabatier Distributer tells me I can get their Paris address and phone number... but, I keep getting "Madeline" on her voice mail. If you could get the phone # in France, I'll call and ask about the "Sabatier 84 A Paris" mark. ------------------ [This message has been edited by doobees (edited 03-11-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-11-2003 08:38 PM
Apparently, Sabatier is a brand of Thiers-Issard, makers of cutlery at their factory in Thiers since 1884. Hmmm, perhaps that is what the "84" refers to. Sorry, no luck here getting phone number of either company. IP: Logged |
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FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 03-11-2003 09:50 PM
Who would have thought that the "accent" in French is important even on the web! 84 is a common silver quality mark. Perhaps that is what it is. Fred IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-11-2003 09:56 PM
Have you tired Infobel? to look up the number? IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 03-11-2003 10:22 PM
It seems I've seen a lot of French silverplate with the 84 mark. I would guess it's some kind of plate quality mark, and that your piece is plate of that quality. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-11-2003 11:18 PM
In my book, The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver you will find a example that compares two similar marks; one Russian & one French. In the French example, I explain that the 84 is a French silverplate mark. The 84 represents the number of grams of silver deposited per relative proportion of the base metal. So if this is French then it is possible that the 84 is the plating quality mark. The way the marks on this Sabatier flatware are described I suppose it could be a date. Without a photo of the marks ....... IP: Logged |
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Arg(um)entum Posts: 304 |
posted 03-11-2003 11:36 PM
You could try: THIERS ISSARD SABATIER - Z.I de Felet B.P. 2 - 63306 Thiers cedex - France Tél. : 04 73 80 41 41 - Fax : 04 73 51 09 Good Luck! IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-11-2003 11:38 PM
From Infobel: quote: IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-20-2003 11:52 AM
Hi, I'll be home at the start of next week - I,ll call when I've unpacked and settled back in. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-24-2003 08:57 AM
Well, I called Sabatier in Thiers and they referred me to David Loster(sp?) who answers questions of this type for the company. According to him, "Rue St. Honoré'84 A Paris" is just the name of a Sabatier flatware maker. He stated that the name could have been chosen for any reason, and that they could have wanted to refer back to Sabatier's being in business since 1884, but that would just be speculation with no real facts to back it up. He denied that it referred to either date or to silver content, stating simply that there were at one time 150 different makers of Sabatier flatware (and now there are technically only 5!) and they all had maker's marks that included the Sabatier name, but some chose objects or animals, while others chose all sorts of short sayings or lines that pleased them. He went on to say that "Rue St. Honor�'84 A Paris" would be found on every piece made by that maker. I hope this helped at least clear up the 84 in this particular case. ...and thank you Scott Martin for explaining that 84 can be a common French silverplate mark. Though I've not yet run across it, it won't perplex me now when I do. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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doobees Posts: 277 |
posted 03-25-2003 08:29 AM
Hey Stephen, I called Sabatier yesterday and posted their reply re:84. Did you get that message? If not, I'll post it again. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Stephen Posts: 625 |
posted 03-25-2003 09:55 AM
Thanks doobees, I see your post. Great to have a Freedom connection to help check these things out! I guess we still don't know who used the "Rue St Honore 84 A Paris (hand under Paris)" mark or who made the silver(plate?) handle that was attached. Perhaps they were one of the many "Sabatier" makers who have disappeared from the scene. [This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 03-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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