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Author Topic:   help with mark on silverplate
mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0787]


Hi, I have a big frit tray with 3 sections and it is silverplated.It is marked with R and M and a star in the middle of the two letters.Can anyone tell me the producer?Thanks

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello and welcome to the forum. Plate is challenging to identify. Can you post a photo of the entire piece and of the marks?

Tom

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like a silver mark of the Austro-Hungarian region rather than plate -- the 13 would denote fineness, and the R*M a maker's mark. And the look of the piece is consistent with that, I'd say. On the first photo, of the whole piece, there's a discoloration near the top, next to the handle, that looks almost like it could be a mark. Is it just a stain?

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes this is possibele because I am from Bulgaria which is near.No, this near the handle is just dirt.The number is 18 not 13. The star between have something like hole in the middle.Thanks

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would have to be thirteen if it is Austro-Hungarian. The Loth system denoted silver content in 16ths, so 13 means 13/16th or .8125 silver. If it is 18, it is not a Loth mark. I will check the makers mark in Tardy when I get home from the office.

Tom

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, thanks for your attention!The metal is beneath the silver is yellow like bronze. Here I post some more deailed pictures of the mark!

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[This message has been edited by mitko07 (edited 11-21-2005).]

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clearly an 18. That and the base metal showing through seems to confirm it is plate. I could not find the mark in Tardy.

By the way, I had great fun in Sofia last summer. I found two spoons at the open air market in front of the Cathedral - one Ottoman and one Romanian - no Bulgarian spoons, alas.

Tom

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-21-2005 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My initial dumb comment was going to be it looks French. No reason, just instinct. The 18 is something I have probably seen on plate before, but most numbers used end in '0'. It is a very elegant looking piece.

You may have a silver gilt piece of bronze. Which is slightly different from silver electroplate. In that case, I would suggest trying to see if the mark can be connected to a bronze maker.

My other suggestion would be that this is a part of a larger piece. I have once or twice seen bronze staturary fitted with places for serving dishes. Since food and bronze are not a good mix, the food carrying area was silvered. Usually, these were commercial items, used in restaurants and hotels.

Nice item. What is the size? Could you show a side view of the handle?

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Dale,
I dont agree with few things you say>
First, this piece seems heavy(thick) elecroplated from what i see, like Christofle & WMF items for example. The silver is only worn on its feet base.It is all silverplated, not only "the food carrying area" even the nuts that hold the handle.
Second,it is a quite large piece to be part of a larger group. It is 35 centimetres wide and 14 cm. high.It could be even centre-piece on a table.Here are post requested some more pictures!Thank you!


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Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed, to me it is a French piece, made ca. 1900-1920. Its use isn't a centre-piece, the handle is the give away: it was used to pass round, probably at the coffeetabel filled with different kinds of sweets. It was a very popular form in Europe at that time.
The maker could be the firm of Roux-Marquiand from Lyon, their mark is 'R' 'five pointed star' 'M', but the star hasn't got a hole in it. In any case this firm seems to have been specialised in plate. Hope this helps.

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, I think I'd agree with Raf on this one now. I originally thought the mark looked like a 13 (having just handled a set of knives with a similar mark that was a 13), and the scale was unclear. The style I thought looked French, but the Austrians (general sense of the empire) sometimes used a similar style, so that could have fit. But the added photos clarify the issues, and my initial reaction was incorrect. Sorry about that!

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, thank you,that was really great! I think I will agree with Raf Steel too! I saw similar mark under the name Roux-Marquiand.Can anyone try to Id my other two postings?Best regards form snowy Sofia!!

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Though it is very strange why this producer does not apear in my Marken-zeichen auf SILVER which is pretty full.Strange!

[This message has been edited by mitko07 (edited 11-22-2005).]

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-22-2005 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the id Raf, great work.

What threw me was the bronze part. IMHE, silverplaters almost never use bronze for something that will be plated. All the bronze ones I have encountered were later plated, not at the time of manufacture. And they generally don't use brass either, for food items.

Actually there are large serving units that could hold several trays of the size you have. They frequently spin, are arranged alternating trays and wine buckets. And from memory, they were overall bronze with silverplate on the serving pieces. Has anyone else ever encountered this type of piece?

Wonderful tray, thanks so much for showing it to us mitko07.

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outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-23-2005 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's pretty.

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mitko07

Posts: 48
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 11-23-2005 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitko07     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, it is very pretty smile you sholud see it if I ever clean it!

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