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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 help with mark on silverplate
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| Author | Topic: help with mark on silverplate |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-21-2005 11:17 AM
  
[26-0787]
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 11-21-2005 12:26 PM
Hello and welcome to the forum. Plate is challenging to identify. Can you post a photo of the entire piece and of the marks? Tom IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-21-2005 01:29 PM
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 11-21-2005 02:29 PM
Looks like a silver mark of the Austro-Hungarian region rather than plate -- the 13 would denote fineness, and the R*M a maker's mark. And the look of the piece is consistent with that, I'd say. On the first photo, of the whole piece, there's a discoloration near the top, next to the handle, that looks almost like it could be a mark. Is it just a stain? IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-21-2005 02:39 PM
Yes this is possibele because I am from Bulgaria which is near.No, this near the handle is just dirt.The number is 18 not 13. The star between have something like hole in the middle.Thanks ------------------ IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 11-21-2005 09:37 PM
It would have to be thirteen if it is Austro-Hungarian. The Loth system denoted silver content in 16ths, so 13 means 13/16th or .8125 silver. If it is 18, it is not a Loth mark. I will check the makers mark in Tardy when I get home from the office. Tom IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-21-2005 10:29 PM
Hi, thanks for your attention!The metal is beneath the silver is yellow like bronze. Here I post some more deailed pictures of the mark!  ------------------
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 11-21-2005 11:11 PM
Clearly an 18. That and the base metal showing through seems to confirm it is plate. I could not find the mark in Tardy. By the way, I had great fun in Sofia last summer. I found two spoons at the open air market in front of the Cathedral - one Ottoman and one Romanian - no Bulgarian spoons, alas. Tom IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 11-21-2005 11:48 PM
My initial dumb comment was going to be it looks French. No reason, just instinct. The 18 is something I have probably seen on plate before, but most numbers used end in '0'. It is a very elegant looking piece. You may have a silver gilt piece of bronze. Which is slightly different from silver electroplate. In that case, I would suggest trying to see if the mark can be connected to a bronze maker. My other suggestion would be that this is a part of a larger piece. I have once or twice seen bronze staturary fitted with places for serving dishes. Since food and bronze are not a good mix, the food carrying area was silvered. Usually, these were commercial items, used in restaurants and hotels. Nice item. What is the size? Could you show a side view of the handle? IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-22-2005 02:18 AM
Dear Dale, I dont agree with few things you say> First, this piece seems heavy(thick) elecroplated from what i see, like Christofle & WMF items for example. The silver is only worn on its feet base.It is all silverplated, not only "the food carrying area" even the nuts that hold the handle. Second,it is a quite large piece to be part of a larger group. It is 35 centimetres wide and 14 cm. high.It could be even centre-piece on a table.Here are post requested some more pictures!Thank you! 
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 11-22-2005 03:15 AM
Indeed, to me it is a French piece, made ca. 1900-1920. Its use isn't a centre-piece, the handle is the give away: it was used to pass round, probably at the coffeetabel filled with different kinds of sweets. It was a very popular form in Europe at that time. The maker could be the firm of Roux-Marquiand from Lyon, their mark is 'R' 'five pointed star' 'M', but the star hasn't got a hole in it. In any case this firm seems to have been specialised in plate. Hope this helps. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 11-22-2005 09:51 AM
Yep, I think I'd agree with Raf on this one now. I originally thought the mark looked like a 13 (having just handled a set of knives with a similar mark that was a 13), and the scale was unclear. The style I thought looked French, but the Austrians (general sense of the empire) sometimes used a similar style, so that could have fit. But the added photos clarify the issues, and my initial reaction was incorrect. Sorry about that! IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-22-2005 11:22 AM
Yes, thank you,that was really great! I think I will agree with Raf Steel too! I saw similar mark under the name Roux-Marquiand.Can anyone try to Id my other two postings?Best regards form snowy Sofia!! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-22-2005 11:50 AM
Though it is very strange why this producer does not apear in my Marken-zeichen auf SILVER which is pretty full.Strange! [This message has been edited by mitko07 (edited 11-22-2005).] IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 11-22-2005 02:12 PM
Thanks for the id Raf, great work. What threw me was the bronze part. IMHE, silverplaters almost never use bronze for something that will be plated. All the bronze ones I have encountered were later plated, not at the time of manufacture. And they generally don't use brass either, for food items. Actually there are large serving units that could hold several trays of the size you have. They frequently spin, are arranged alternating trays and wine buckets. And from memory, they were overall bronze with silverplate on the serving pieces. Has anyone else ever encountered this type of piece? Wonderful tray, thanks so much for showing it to us mitko07. IP: Logged |
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outwest Posts: 390 |
posted 11-23-2005 12:19 AM
I think it's pretty. IP: Logged |
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mitko07 Posts: 48 |
posted 11-23-2005 09:04 AM
Yes, it is very pretty  you sholud see it if I ever clean it!------------------ IP: Logged |
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