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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Is this an Austrian / Hungarian mark?
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| Author | Topic: Is this an Austrian / Hungarian mark? |
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2209patrick Posts: 37 |
posted 01-28-2007 09:38 PM
  
I'm just a small collector, but occasionally I get asked about a silver mark. Someone has asked me about a silver jewelry chest that they just bought from overseas. They were told the marks were Austrian / Hungarian. Checked my copies of Tardy's and Jan Divis's book and did find a similar mark used from 1886 to 1922 on large items with a fineness of .800. Problem is, the mark on the jewelry chest has two letter P's on each side of the head. Could anyone tell me if this is just another version of the Austrian mark, or if it's a fake? Any ideas or opinions would be welcome. Just one more thing. Is that HS mark the one used by Hermann Sudfeld & Company of Vienna Austria. Thanks for your help. Regards, IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 01-29-2007 12:01 AM
Tardy has misprinted the start date for the mark as 1886, when it should be 1868, when the mark was first applied (following the change of the Austrian Empire to the Austro-Hungarian Empire the previous year). Although the Austrian Republic issued a new mark in 1922, Hungary continued to use the old one until 1937. The "P" stands for Pest, one of the two cities that merged to form Budapest. I have no explanation for the double mark. The mark preceding the head should be a 3 to denote 800 silver, but the shape of the punch also inidicates finesse. I would not assume a forgery on this evidence alone. While I cannot identify the maker, the assay marks suggests the piece was not made in Vienna as you suggest. Hope this helps,
[This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 01-29-2007).] [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 01-29-2007).] IP: Logged |
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2209patrick Posts: 37 |
posted 01-29-2007 02:15 PM
Thanks for the information Tom. Pat. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 02-04-2007 10:24 AM
Aren't the marks next to each other at the hinge? Probably double marked once for the lid, once for the bottom? IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 02-04-2007 11:51 AM
Austro-Hungarian silver does not follow the English laws and does not have every part marked. This Diana-head looks odd to me, I miss the moonsickle on her head and even if Pest, then one side should have the number for fineness and the letter for the assayoffice. The letter/number combination was only introduced after April 1. 1872 - an excellent book for Austro-Hungarian marks is: Alfred Rohrwasser: Österreichs Punzen, Edelmetall Punzierung in Österreich von 1524 bis 1987 - it is written in German, but the marks are self-explanatory. Re Hungarian marks an excellent book is Köszeghy Elemer: Magyarorszagi Ötvösjegyek,Merkzeichen der Goldschmiede Ungarns vom Mittelalter bis 1867,Budapest 1936. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-04-2007 03:44 PM
Dorothea, Good points. Do you know why the Hungarians continued to use Austro-Hungarian marks until 1937, when the Austrian Republic created new ones in 1922? I can read German, but I don't have those sources. Thanks, IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 02-04-2007 04:42 PM
For what it's worth, I have the same reservation about the crescent, and wonder if there shouldn't also be a number indicating purity instead of the unidentified second letter. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 02-04-2007 05:37 PM
tmockait - sorry I have no idea. But I try to get back to you on this one. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 02-05-2007 11:01 AM
The Hungarians kept their silver marks, because Hungary stayed a kingdom (just like in the Austro-Hungarian monarchy) from 21.3.1920 to 21.Dec.1944 - instead of a Habsburg king, the Miklos Horty regime. Austria became a republic and as such had new silver marks issued. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-05-2007 11:38 AM
Thanks Dorothea. I am aware of the tranistion in Austria but am still puzzled by the Hungarian situation. The marks changed in 1937, not 1945. IP: Logged |
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DB Posts: 252 |
posted 02-05-2007 02:07 PM
I have nothing more to offer, I got this answer from Dr.Ingrid Haslinger/Hofsilberkammer , Vienna. IP: Logged |
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2209patrick Posts: 37 |
posted 02-07-2007 08:17 AM
Thank you Tom, Vathek, Dorothea (I like your articles) and Bascall for your responses. Also received a response from a collector in Berlin, Germany: Pat. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 02-07-2007 05:39 PM
Pat, Well, at least we all had fun trying to solve this puzzle! Glad you will get your money back. Tom IP: Logged |
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