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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 very old silver fork (continental?) rare hallmarks
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| Author | Topic: very old silver fork (continental?) rare hallmarks |
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zieziela Posts: 14 |
posted 04-16-2006 06:15 AM
  
[26-1011] I found this I think very old fork with strange hallmarks in it.
Many thanks for the help IP: Logged |
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witzhall Posts: 124 |
posted 04-16-2006 08:46 PM
zieziela, welcome to the forums - please don't be discouraged by the photo-posting challenges  !IP: Logged |
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Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 04-17-2006 09:11 AM
Congratulations! You managed to get the pictures posted, and they are very good indeed Waylander IP: Logged |
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 04-17-2006 02:35 PM
Your fork is Belgian, 18th century. From left to right: first mark the letter "E" in gothic script, for "Etranger"= foreign. All foreign silver sold in Belgium between 1830-1868, got stamped with this mark. Even though the fork was made in Ghent in the 18th century,the country 'Belgium' didn't exist at that time, so silver that predates 1830 is considered as foreign to the country. Next two marks are the city marks for Ghent: first one a medieval helmet of an armour and second the crowned 'G'. Fourth mark: date mark crowned "91" for 1791, hence the shape of the fork. Last mark: the maker. Unfortunatly, I can't make it out (made a detailed picture?). As usual, the marks are not very legible, due to the (original) 'prooftesting' (not quite sure what the correct English term is). Also in most cases forks and spoons were assayed and then given the finishing touch by the silversmith: hence marks that are damaged. Also 200 years of use takes its toll. By the way, this is the first day of spring we had this year, so outwest, don't believe everything you hear about our country! (as always only the good things are true of course). IP: Logged |
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IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 04-17-2006 05:57 PM
Very informative, Raf Steel! I had no idea—In fact, I was a little perturbed by the number of marks, and was thinking perhaps Hanau (or other) pseudomarks. But the explanation of the import mark makes sense, and that reduces the number of total stamps to four, which seems a little more reasonable. IP: Logged |
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outwest Posts: 390 |
posted 04-18-2006 12:37 AM
Is 'proof testing' that zig zag marking? Did they pick a certain number of items to test for purity or was all of it tested? Goodness, people went to a lot of trouble with silver in many countries. In America you were lucky if you got a couple initials; sometimes absolutely nothing at all. IP: Logged |
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 04-18-2006 03:24 AM
Indeed, the zigzag mark. Mostly you see 18th and early 19th century pieces with 'proofing marks', but not always. These marks are sometimes useful to date an object. I guess sometimes silversmiths "forgot" to pass their pieces through the assay office before selling them. In case of a series of 12 forks f.i., normally all 12 forks will be tested. IP: Logged |
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zieziela Posts: 14 |
posted 04-18-2006 03:48 AM
Very many thanks!!! to Raf Steels, such a lot of information!! and the other members with encouraging words, I will indeed continue with this forum it's most learnfull. As for the marks, I tried one from the right side and one from the left, as for me (with no knowledge at all) the E looks morelike the right mark, but I'm sure I'll be wrong!! IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 04-18-2006 01:40 PM
Just to clarify: the zigzag mark is a groove left behind by the removal of silver for assaying -- it is not itself an indication of quality, which is provided by other marks. IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 04-18-2006 03:40 PM
Raf, I believe the term is "diet" or "diet mark" (refers to the removed portion as well as the remaining mark). [This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 02-13-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Raf Steel Posts: 94 |
posted 04-23-2006 10:45 AM
Been off-line so I'm a little late to reply. Thanks Salmoned for the clarification! The master could be I. De Cuyper of Ghent (DC), but I'm not a 100% sure. Raf IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 04-23-2006 01:07 PM
Thanks to Zieziela for sharing the interesting piece and to the rest for interpreting the marks. As for posts in general, I have learned the hard way that while the Internet promotes communication it also frequently leads to misunderstanding. My department has an unwritten rule on not trying to resolve issues via e-mail for the simple reason that we usually make things worse. As one who has misundertsood and been misunderstood, I prefer to giver everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume posts are written with the best of intentions no matter how they might sound. Cheers, IP: Logged |
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zieziela Posts: 14 |
posted 04-24-2006 01:36 PM
Thanks Raf Steel and all the others for such a lot of information. And believe it or not, I had already an old fork with such a sort of scratch I thougt it was made by the one who marked his name in it (not te maker!) but the owner, and that so the fork was dammaged.... Now I think it must also be from 1791 and I think from Mechelen, but there was the scratch in... The other initials I couldn't find. It is a very very beautiful model of fork, if someone is interested to see it, I will take some pictures and put it on the site, now that I now it is not dammaged at all!! [This message has been edited by zieziela (edited 04-24-2006).] IP: Logged |
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