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Author	Topic: Whatzit?
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 07-05-2008 01:23 PM Here is a continental silver object. It features a figural cast bird finial atop a tapering stem with a beaded tip. I can't really decipher the marks on the wings. Its length is 3 3/4". I have no idea what this is. Any thoughts? IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 07-05-2008 02:38 PM I think this is a kind of pointer used to follow text when reading aloud from a bible or prayer book in front of the congregation. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 07-05-2008).] IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 07-05-2008 02:51 PM Knife rest ? IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 07-05-2008 03:33 PM Thanks swarter. That seems to make sense. The bird, though clumsily executed, to resemble a dove. I guess a symbol of peace would be appropriate for a religious item. Any guesses on a date? I would think mid to late 19C Can anyone make out the hallmarks? One appears to be an "X" or crossed devices in a sheild shaped cartouche. I don't know about the other. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 07-05-2008).] IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 07-05-2008 05:43 PM I have an idea about what this is bubbling around in my head but let me hold off to see if there are any more guesses. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 07-05-2008 06:47 PM quote: Originally posted by Paul Lemieux: Thanks swarter. That seems to make sense. The bird, though clumsily executed, to resemble a dove. I guess a symbol of peace would be appropriate for a religious item. Any guesses on a date? I would think mid to late 19C. The item may be Judaica, with the dove representing the one released by Noah from the Ark, and which returned with an olive brance to signify that the flood was subsiding. I would agree with the mid- to late 19C Continental origin. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 07-05-2008 07:45 PM How about a champagne stirrer meant to eliminate excess gas from Champagne. Jersey IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 07-06-2008 08:22 AM It's not a Torah pointer? IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 07-06-2008 10:53 AM I'm no expert on Judaica, but most Torah pointers I've seen have a hand with a pointing index finger at the tip. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 07-06-2008 12:37 PM Not Judaica or religious IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 07-06-2008 03:40 PM My guess is that this is some sort of obscure sewing item, used for wrapping ribbon and thread around the wings. The creased formed by the wings would indicate where to place a tacking stitch. It could also be used to hold ribbon etc in place for sewing purposed. Torah pointers are generally quite long. [This message has been edited by Dale (edited 07-06-2008).] IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 07-06-2008 05:52 PM Jersey got it. It is a swizzle stick meant to remove the bubbles from champagne which was fashionable to do amongst the cruising set. Maybe the lack of bubbles helped with seasickness. Who knows. The usage is documented in An Illustrated Dictionary of Silverware by Harold Newman. IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 07-06-2008 07:12 PM June, does it say in that book when silver swizzle sticks originated? IP: Logged
agphile Posts: 798 Registered: Apr 2008	posted 07-07-2008 07:04 AM I remember playing with a swizzle stick as a child in the early 1940s. It belonged to an "honorary aunt" who told me it was for removing the bubbles in cocktails, if I remember correctly. Presumably these were champagne cocktails (which I still sometimes make to my father's recipe) or the thing had a double function: bubble removal or stirring the ingredients of other cocktails in the glass. Its form was quite different. The swizzle part was a wire spray that could be retracted into a plain, slim tubular silver handle. It was of a size that could slip into a lady's purse and was clearly meant to be carried as a personal item. Neither the aunt nor my parents were particularly posh. They were part of the expatriate British community working in Egypt in the 1930s, but they would have sailed regularly between Egypt and the UK on leave which may tie in with the cruising reference. This doesn't help with the earliest date but I have always thought of them as a fad of the 1920s/1930s. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 07-07-2008 07:29 AM IP: Logged
agphile Posts: 798 Registered: Apr 2008	posted 07-07-2008 07:02 PM Thanks Scott. That is exactly what I was trying to describe. IP: Logged
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 Registered: Apr 2000	posted 07-07-2008 08:36 PM Thanks everyone for your guesses, and thanks Jersey for finding the correct answer for me. Yes, I usually associate those wire spray swizzle sticks with the roaring 20s. But I am wondering if any references specify when the sizzle stick actually first appeared in silver. I guess it's pretty hard to date mine. Stylistically it does not represent any specific movement, and as the marks are fairly illegible, there's no help there either. I would give a broad range of ca 1900-1930. IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 07-07-2008 09:56 PM Hi, Paul. Unfortunately, Newman does not give a date, but I agree that the 20's/30's make sense. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 07-08-2008 01:37 PM Hi again Paul! Why not try a patent search? I'm not very good at that. Have a great day! Jersey IP: Logged

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