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Author Topic:   750 W
silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-21-2009 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1926, 07-0686]

I have some hallmarks from Germany from the 2. half of 19. century. I do not know - it is a town mark or a makers mark.

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-21-2009 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
F.Schade and the Rossstrasse 27 is in Berlin. But I don't know - it is a maker or a seller.

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 11-21-2009 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely the retailer (seller).

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-21-2009 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank You - and what does the W mark mean?
Is it the manufacturer or the townmark?

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 11-21-2009 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not so sure for German silver, re Austro-Hungarian silver it would mean the manufacturer or maker, since 750 is lowgrade silver.

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silberpunze

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Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-24-2009 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have some informations, that the W-mark it is an unknown Berlin maker. Could it be an early Wilm ? Have somebody any Informations?

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 11-24-2009 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wolfgang Scheffler: Berliner Goldschmiede, Daten, Werke, Zeichen, Berlin 1968, gives several marks of Wilm - but every one features the written out name "WILM" in different fonts.

A little history about Wilm, since it is in front of me:

    Hermann Julius Wilm, born 27.1.1812 in Hamburg and apprenticed with his uncle (his mark is also the whole name), marries the merchant daughter Juliane Mathilde Struwe (Paroch), 1844 his 23 year old son dies (unbaptized), he became court jeweler taking this office without having a certification as master.

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silberpunze

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Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-25-2009 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you an image of a Wilm mark?

The mark is not uncommon to cutlery, along with the mark of different jewelers found. Therefore, there should have been a major manufacturer. It is strange that it is not documented.

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 11-25-2009 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All the marks are pictured in Scheffler's book.

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-25-2009 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, this “W 750” mark is a puzzle. And I agree that it must be a manufacturer’s mark, as it appears with such a wide range of retailer’s marks. For instance:

Friedrich Römer (active 1830-1850), Franz Römer (1815-1870) or August Gustav Friedrich Römer (1830-by 1885), all in Potsdam (whose city mark also appears here.)

Richard Ménard (founded 1868, still active 1908) in Bromberg (now Bydgoszcz, Poland)

Although .750 (12 Lot) was the standard in Berlin, it was common throughout Northeast Germany, Pomerania, Posen and Silesia. So I don’t think this “W” manufacturer is necessarily from Berlin – it could be from anywhere in this region.

But the time frame definitely appears to be the 1860s & 1870s. Friedrich Schade (ca. 1817-1871), for instance, was not located at 27 RossStrasse until April of 1857. It remained there until at least 1905.

Quite a puzzle.


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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-25-2009 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps if we could see the whole pieces the marks are on, we could come up with a time frame for the pieces and then narrow down the possible makers. Frequently we can not identify from a mark alone. But given a number of hints from style, size, design etc we can figure it out.

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-26-2009 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes blakstone it is a puzzle.
Are you ready to bring together the jigsaw pieces?
I want to search for more pictures of this mark.

the style is "Augsburger Faden" and "Spaten"

[This message has been edited by silberpunze (edited 11-26-2009).]

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-27-2009 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have images of the items here, but as silberpunze notes, the "W 750" mark appears exclusively (at least in the examples I've seen) on the most basic 3rd quarter 19th century "Augsburger Faden" and "Spaten" flatware (what in English we would call "Fiddle Thread" and "Fiddle", respectively). Part of the puzzle is that the items are so frustratingly prosaic.

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-28-2009 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
an other mark on a W 750 spoon is [JRGENS]

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-29-2009 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there any chance that the maker could have produced commercial silver intended for restaurants, military etc? Very little is known about these makers since they did not produce a lot of silverware, instead only made to order. The 750 mark would seem to be to indicate superior wearing strength in an item that would be heavily used.

What pieces does this mark appear on? Are there items other than standard place pieces? Are there any monograms or initials? Are there serving pieces?

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-30-2009 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You think it is Wellner from Aue in Saxony?
( "Hotelsilber" ~silverplated ) Wellner
Christian Gottlieb Wellner

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 01-01-2010 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I find this mark from Hermann Julius Wilm.

    >>Wilm Hermann Julius, 1812 Hamburg-1907 Berlin, Hofjuwelier
    einer der ältesten und bekanntesten Berliner Gold-und Silber-
    schmiede, Gründer war Gottfried Ludwig Wilm (1746-1829)
    Namensgeber sein Neffe Hermann Julius Wilm <<

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 01-04-2010 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in Scheffler -Goldschnmiede Mittel und Norddeutschland -(Magdeburg)G Chevelier Nachflg. #416 W in oval and 750 in oval.


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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 01-17-2010 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello to you all,

After a period (time out) it is still interesting to read all the topics and I hope it's possible to continue the hobby /concerning visiting the forum and react at some of the topics?

I've read all reactions from this topic and silver marks always interest me. In the passed time I've learned some about silver/marks etc. The use of a letter can explain a city or is date letter or is in combination initials of a silversmith etc. I can't explain the figure which is showed by Blakstone concerning the object marked with F.Roemer,I recognize the symbol(in my opinion)of a simplistic eagle? I was surprised because this symbol I've seen also at some pieces in combination used at some flatware from Great Brittan.

My question is:

Is this figure used by more countries like Germany and Great Brittan and were does this figure stands for?

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