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tline3open  request for help on 18th c german beaker

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Author Topic:   request for help on 18th c german beaker
suomoo

Posts: 40
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 08-14-2009 05:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for suomoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1895]

I have a small solid silver antique beaker with date of 1706 (birth cup, likely German) but I cannot find its hallmarks. I have searched in all my books but..not an exact match. Could anyone help me identifying the town and maker of the beaker? The maker might be 17th c. Many thanks in advance.




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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 08-14-2009 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A charming beaker. I am afraid I cannot help with the mark and am simply coming back with a question. Do you know what the letters G.G.G. at the end of the inscription stand for? I imagine something to do with God, giving, good or perhaps health (Gesundheit in German)?

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suomoo

Posts: 40
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 08-14-2009 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for suomoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello, a german collector recently explained the text to me:

Anno 1706 dem 16. Januar ist gebohren Sebastian Schlayperiz sein Gevatterin Fr. Susanna Catharina Burg von Ebertz

transl:

on the 1.16.1706 Sebastian Schlayperiz was born - his godmother Ms. Susanna Catharina Burg (castle) of Ebertz.

G:G:G = God give grace


greetings and thanks for posting a reply.

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 08-14-2009 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for that. I am sorry I cannot be as helpful in return.

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 04:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Lindau am Bodensee in Bavaria.
The maker is probably Rühl (Master 1645)

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Postnikov

Posts: 133
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Postnikov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HI -

townmark: Lindau am Bodensee ca.1706
master: A I Rad
The source: A. Steccanella attributed this beaker to the silver/goldsmith Rel, who became 1645 master in Lindau.

Hope this helps

Postnikov

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Postnikov

:-) I know your source - welcome.
A I Rad was an initial presumption, but stecci has excluded the possible candidates of the family Rad.

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Postnikov

Posts: 133
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Postnikov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi silverpunze -
congratulation! Great site with valuable informations - I am not much in German silver, but it is good to know where to look...

Regards
Postnikov

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the compliment
A little thing you could do for my page. A kind of evolutionary history of the Russian spoon. I try to portray the evolution of the spoon in Europe. It should be designed around that.
Could you do that? It will allow using the form of a spoon to determine the origin and age.
Regards Silberpunze

[This message has been edited by silberpunze (edited 11-18-2009).]

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Postnikov

Posts: 133
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Postnikov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi siverspoon -
a little thing ....??
Ok, I will try, but the real Russian spoons have only two or three patterns - the others are copies of the European taste/mode or just phantasie.
You will see what you get and can deside what is udeful for you and what not.

Regards
Postnikov

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silberpunze

Posts: 100
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silberpunze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know that this is no small thing ;-)
I know russian spoon of the 19 Century mainly in only one form. But there may be little things that have changed over time or in different regions were different, so you can make based on these characteristics, a statement about the age of it and its origin. Now, Russian silver has indeed the characteristics that in the 19 Century was almost always with date and accurate coat of arms, and the master name gemarkt. This facilitates the provision of that time very much.
But as I said - I want to create a map of the spoon forms and yet I need the help of experts and collectors.

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Postnikov

Posts: 133
Registered: Nov 2009

iconnumber posted 11-18-2009 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Postnikov     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi silberpunze (sorry for the siverspoon, I am getting old..) -
I will do my best and we will see.

Regards
Postnikov

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suomoo

Posts: 40
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 01-10-2010 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for suomoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many thanks to everyone for all the answers.

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