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Author Topic:   Turtle in Diamond Mark
Dwaitha

Posts: 2
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-25-2008 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwaitha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1664]

Hi. I am new to the forum, I am a collector, mostly American sterling flatware. I know just enough to know hoe little I know.

I am looking at small Asian-like "silver" box with intricate dragon on lid. Owners says box is Japanese and sterling. The only mark on box is a turtle in a diamond. Does anyone know anything about this mark and does it indicate box is Japanese and sterling? I can't find it anywhere. Also, can anyone recommend a good book on Asian hallmarks and/or pseudo marks. Thanks.

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agleopar

Posts: 824
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 05-27-2008 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to the forums!

I own 2 Japanese objects and they both have marks with (I think) Kanji - writing. Your mark may be just what someone thinks or another standard (silver content) or from a different part of the world. It is almost impossible to identify a mark from a description so if you can post an image, that at least will give the experts a shot at it.

Good luck.

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 05-27-2008 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to a clear closeup photo of the markings, a clear photo of the overall box is also important in identifying such things. Also, if there is any known information on the approximate age of the box and how and where it was acquired that can also be helpful - though one always has to take verbal stories about silver with a large grain of salt.

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Dwaitha

Posts: 2
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-27-2008 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwaitha     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the replies so far. Here is my attempt at adding a picture. Hope it works.

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agleopar

Posts: 824
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 05-28-2008 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dwaitha, Good image! Well done, can we see the rest of the box, inside and dimensions too?
Some times the way it is made will tell where it came from and showing details of the inside may give a clue.

The mark has the quality of Japanese work and I hope there is some one here who has knowledge of Asian work, perhaps some one from the west coast.

[This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 05-28-2008).]

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's a belt, described as Chinese, currently on that west coast auction site that carries this mark. The seller claims "I have only seen that marking on 18th Century items that are silver", but I don't agree; I'd say 19th - 20th century.

As others have said, we'd love to see a photo of the box itself, and that would give more information from which to opine.

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jersey

Posts: 1202
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ck out :
quote:

Best Quality Japanese Sterling High Relief Dragon Box

Presented is an incredible quality, Japanese sterling silver box from the late 1800s or very early 1900s. The craftsmanship on this piece is fabulous, and looks like something by Samurai Shokai or like something that would be retailed by world renown silversmiths Arthur & Bond out of their Yokohama, Japan store. The amazingly detailed dragon decoration on the top of the box is extremely high relief. The hinge is in perfect condition and the push button locking mechanism on the front is tight and secure.

The underside bears an interesting turtle in a triangle mark. This is obviously the manufacturer's mark. I have never seen this mark before and do not know who made the box. Guaranteed to be at least sterling purity.

The box measures 1 5/8 by 3 1/8 inches, is 1 3/4 inches tall and weighs 84.1 grams or 2.9 ounces.




Jersey

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Kalikiss

Posts: 12
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kalikiss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jersey - I assume you mean e-Bay completed. If you do, that is the box. The seller claims ancient Japanese and sterling - says it was assayed - but meaning no disrespect or distrust of the seller, I am not sure what it really is. They do not seem to know either.

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jersey

Posts: 1202
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the edit Scott!
Sorry, I thought I had said completed, & yes that Is the box. The seller seems to know for the most part what he is selling, and that they sell primarily silver. However, I do not know their return policy.
Perhaps the forum poster was looking for maker verification with intent to bid. Nice box either way though. That said, either way it would be interesting to know the maker.

Jersey

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Dwaitha.

When you posted your question on May 25 the auction was still going on, and you did not say this was the purpose of your question. The auction closed on May 28. Please take a moment and go re-read the Guidelines, including the following section of them:

quote:
Can I ask questions about items currently for sale online (i.e., eBay) or other sites?

One might want to ask a question about an item seen for sale for various reasons, such as obtaining reassurance or otherwise about an item that one might consider buying using a set of good illustrations to ask questions about a similar item pointing out a deceptive listing as a warning, or drawing attention to ones items for sale. (Not allowed)

Helping members avoid mistakes is a basic role of the Silver Salon Forums, but we realize that this situation offer opportunities for abuse.

All references to auction items are subject to the approval of the moderators who at their sole and incontestable discretion will decide whether to leave such references or delete them.

IN GENERAL, it is best not to ask questions about an auction item until the auction is closed

DO NOT "borrow" images from auctions or other web sites. They may be accessible to you, and you may be able to copy them, but they do not belong to you.


In the future, please do not ask about auctions until after they are completed.

That said, since the auction is now over from what I see in the images my first impression is the box does not likely have much age to it. I see absolutely no patina anywhere on on it, not even in the crevaces, and no wear patterns in the smooth surfaces that one would expect on a 100 year old box - even one that was lightly used. I am not an expert in Asia objects, but I have seen more than a few and my impression is that I wonder if it is Japanese. My thought is it looks more like recent Vietnamese designs.

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Kalikiss

Posts: 12
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kalikiss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At least he/she did the photo right which is a challenge on its own. I am new to the forum and when I saw the post and went looking for the mark, I saw the box on e-bay. I think the auction was closed by the time I saw it. I have read the guidelines and understood the warning, but was confused about whether or not we could actually post questions about items we were thinking about buying. Thanks for the clarification.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 05-31-2008 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
May I add something here? When a piece is handmade and looks like silver, it is almost never silverplate. There are handmade items that have been plated but these are few and far between. Usually they are copper or pewter with a later plating. I doubt that I have encountered 25 of them. So, I would conclude that the box is some sort of solid silver. With the mark of a long ago Japanese smith.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 08-04-2012 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
see: Silver Iris design kettle with stand - turtle in diamond mark

The turtle mark is attributed to the Sanju Saku retailer (Tokyo or Yokohama)(Meiji period)

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 01-10-2018 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see lots of Internet attributions for SANJU SAKU and the turtle mark but I haven't seen anything that amounts to documentation (i.e., advertising, business documentation, etc.)?

?

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