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Author Topic:   Found among plated silver
Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[07-0781]

Here is a story regarding education. To have knowledge has never harmed anyone. In some cases you can even make a finding.

I always check the boxes containing silver plated flat ware. I always check silverplated that is. And many a good find has been discovered among the plated. Normally I find a spoon or like, there are normally a catch. Sometimes a good one.

In November 13th 2009 I made a bargain. Among silver plated I found this


The marks are not to clear but they can be identified.

The spoons are danish made in Copenhagen by Martin Joachim Oppermann born in Poland 1778, becomes a jeweler on December 15th 1806; he is dead in 1849, but in 1815 he divorces his wife and she continues production. He manufactures soft drinks. Guardian mark tells us that the spoons are before 1823.

marks are worn but we can estimate 1806 to 1823 as day of manufacture. Found among silver plated - for the price of 1$ each. I know we don't talk prices, but I just gave price to show, that one should be observant.
Can we do better?

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 06:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That finding was some time ago. In between I have found many nice items in silver among the plated. The record however is difficult to beat, but can be done. I know that we don't often find 6 matching pieces, and much rare is 6 matching unknown, Can be beat 200 years?

The answer is yes (otherwise I would not sit here writing). record was set yesterday. Among silver plated I found one desert-spoon around 1900 and one the-spoon around 1880 - not out of the ordinary. Also common but a bit rare was 2 empire spoons - made by danish Århus master Christian Schmidt born 1741, citizenship June 7th 1773 - local guardian 1791 to 1793. So we know that the 2 spoons are made before 1793, even as the prick-engraving say 1807. Must be put there at a special occasion.


Marks are typical danish outside Copenhagen.

The spoons are nice they match the one starting this story - but 2 cannot match 6. Therefore we continue...

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was pleased 4 spoons two of them +200 years, and all in the 2$/piece box. My heart almost stopped - 1 (one) baroc spoon, (we are still in the 2$ box) then one more, then one more, then two more and finally one more. 6 in total all the same baroc.

½ dozen spoons - yep. All spoons had several names prik engraved and year 1781


And story gets better

At home I started searching. The spoons where made by two different makers.



The spoons are wedding spoons. 2 of them are used more than the 4 - and indeed we have different makers. Is it a problem? or does it add value to the story. (wife calls lunch, more to follow)
Lunch completed.

The 6 spoons are completely alike same shape and engraving. But 2 different makers. Four is marked CH 2 marked PB

PB is from the danish city of Randers - he is Peter Brock Brockmand born in the city of Mariager citienship 16th December 1739 dead 1766. So we know that 2 of the spoons are before 1766.
CH is also from Randers he is Christian Pedersen Høvring born approx 1728 goldsmith in city of Hobro 1754-67 citienship Randers on 9th September 1767 dead 1782 widow continues business and is mentioned 1794.
The 6 spoons all have same prik engraving. R.B.H over MGDM over 1781 over HSDH and at the front RRSB over HND over Halling over 1824.

Halling is the name of two different cities in the county of Århus (don't know which of them - yet)
The situation was 2 spoons (marked PB) where used more than the 4 others. At a wedding in 1781 we must assume that these where brought to a silversmith (CH) that made 4 extra spoons - same pattern and rat-tail engraved. Most likely given by parents at a wedding. In 1824 the 6 spoons was a present at next generations wedding.

Again we assume - proviniens is missing.

To conclude - so much fun for 12$ - but my point is that you should be observant, treasures are there you have to open your eyes to find them. The 6 spoons was found yesterday - setting a new goal for my search.
Who know how many years I have to search to find 6 spoons older than these. Somewhere they are - in the search process I will find many fine object - but one day I will match the 6 baroc spoons found yesterday.

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great finds. I had more or less stopped rummaging around in bargain boxes because I never seem to find anything to justify the effort. Perhaps I should start again.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just an extra image showing the rat tail engraving.

Saw that I have had a reply. You can start right away. One must never stop. I have så many single spoons - some very old. But hey are there. Not often in pair of six - but less is also OK.

However my finding yesterday - shows they are still there.
My children (the kid 23) dont share my interest. When cleaning up - they will face a hub of items, no clue what so ever to what is good and what is not. They have no idea so they will skip the lot - and next someone will do a bargain. That is the way it is supposed to be. A man/woman with the knowledge deserve to be surprised.

One day at Bornholm I picked up 2 the-spoons silver gilded. Anno 1800 - priced 10 DKK/each. I asked to buy and she replied: "upon a time I believed that I should have money for them, then I realized no interest and I through them among the lot, you are the first one to pick them up for 5 years - now you can take care of them for me"

That sounds like a ferry tale, but she did not drop dead afterwards smile

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fantastic treasures.
A good lessen for anyone.
Thanks.

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is/was the custom at Danish tables to place the spoons with the bowl facing down, so that diners could fully appreciate the beautiful design work on the back?

Those are really lovely. Congratulations, Hose_dk!

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is finding June 8th 2010. 5 spoons for 4½ $ for all 5.



The spoons are desert spoons and as marks are big they never matched,
Master cannot be found but one spoon have identifiable Copenhagen mark 1816. Guardian is visible at all 5 spoons, and month mark is Lion for 22nd July to 21st August

Danish marks are always hidden, never on front side. Marks are always at back. Or on the under side. Unlike our neighbor Sweden. Swedish marks are always set so people can see that it is silver. In Denmark we do not brag with silver, we just show - but never show off.

The rat-tail decoration is at the back because they should be at display like this



The cabinet was made by my grandfather for his wedding in 1907. That was form of a long tradition of storage. My father is dead and my mother moved to a home for old people so the cabinet came to me 1 week ago.

The tobaksskab (tobacco cabinet) was hanging on the wall. Silver and valuables in there - in case of fire. Grab the furniture and save all family values. Inside the cabin was also snaps (liqueur) and glasses or tumlinge. The silver used for special occasions.

The piece made by my grandfather in 1907 was a bit old fashioned. I don't think that these rows for spoons was made long after that.

In my cabinet the spoons do not match. The holes are customized by grandfather for their silver.

I have pictures to be hanging at the wall. He made the frame hang wrong. Their house was not strait so he adjusted frame/pictures so they looked like in latter. He was a skilled furniture maker.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 07-03-2010 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dealt in silverplate for many years. The usual practice was that I bought everything the sterling dealers didn't want as a lot. Which meant I ended up with lots of coin and continental silver. And some Georgian silver as well. It always seemed odd that the silverplate dealers were more knowledgeable about these areas than the sterling dealers. Thanks for the information.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-07-2014 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have not updated this for some time. I have found lots of silver, but only ordinary - not the real finds. Today I won an auktion. Item described as "plated with inliner off blue glass and 12 silver tea spoons...." I have therefore bought a mix of silver and plate. But is it plated? I was not the only one to think - could it be?

12 spoons and a sugarbowl with inner glass in blue.

12 spoons from a Danish maker Franciscius Kozlowsky maker 1798 to 1813. He dies 1847

Could the bowl be silver? Auktion house missed this

Maker has set his mark in 1806 on top of an older mark. See its stuck upon an 1770 makers mark. Guardein is Fabritius and town mark is also 1770. Maker saved tax for the king by reuse of silvermarks.

So I have a silver bowl and on top this exciting case of froud from 1806.

[This message has been edited by Hose_dk (edited 03-07-2014).]

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Hose_dk

Posts: 396
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 10-29-2017 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Long time simce post here. The silver found has been a spoon or like from time to time.
Yesterday a real antique appeard in the 1½ dollar box.
A beaker from the danish city of Slagelse. Made by Thomas Johan Schorler born approx 1736 in Næstved. Marries the vidow of a silversmith and gets his citienship in 1761 on the 14th of July. He dies in 1794. I would date the rococco beaker to the 1770ties.

The findings are still there. Always be alert.


I guess that I will have to test pictures.

[This message has been edited by Hose_dk (edited 10-29-2017).]

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Polly

Posts: 1843
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 10-29-2017 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lovely!

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