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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Large Elaborate Silver Cross. ID Touchmarks. ?? Austro Hungarian ??
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| Author | Topic: Large Elaborate Silver Cross. ID Touchmarks. ?? Austro Hungarian ?? |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 03-17-2007 05:52 AM
  
[26-1374]
I am back again with another query and was wondering if you good people could help me. I have spent quite a lot of time and had no success locating the touch marks on this. Its very large cross - 4 inches x 2 1/2 inches. There are 2 marks is on its body (top loop area - not the jump ring). First (at 9 oclock). The cartoouche seems to be coffin shaped and looks pretty much like the head of an animal / gargoyle ??? Above his head is what looks a letter A. The second mark (at 5 ocklock) is either a letter S or a number 8 - not sure which. The workmanship on the back of this piece - seems very well done. The other interesting thing with this piece is the way the stones are cut. The Barrell shape stones (sorry can't think of another way to describe the shape) stones have two horizontal facets accross them. Having looked closely I also think these stones are foiled ? - possibly Topaz ??. The pearls are real - gritty texture When I bought this I was thinking maybe austro-hungarian - but now that I can't locate the mark I am unsure ??? Can anyone help with these marks - any info to put me on the right track - your expertise would be much appreciated. The touch mark photos were really tricky to get - I ended up taking them though a loupe as it was the only way I could get them clear enough. I very much appreciate your help Debbie IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-17-2007 11:56 AM
Debbie, I cannot make out the detail on the marks from your photos, but from what you say the piece could be Austrian or Hungarian, but the mark above the "animal" in the lozenge should be a number not a letter. Double check. Also, the honey-colored stones look like Baltic amber. See if you can find air bubbles or plant/insect impressions in the stones under a magnifying glass. Tom IP: Logged |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 03-17-2007 01:20 PM
Hello Tom Thanks for looking. I thought myself it doesnt seem to fit the standard of what you expect from Hungary - I am sure its a letter A in the cartouche above animals head. The stones are cold and although they are flat cut on top they look like they are faceted underneath - I did think (maybe hoped) they were topaz - but I have not had them looked at - they could be citrine. See if you can see better from these (pics now in next post) Look at 9 ocklock for the animal / gargoyle and 5 ocklock for the number 8 or S (not sure which) [This message has been edited by collecting.dust (edited 03-17-2007).] IP: Logged |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 03-17-2007 01:27 PM
Not to worry lets try again Lets try this again IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 03-17-2007 02:07 PM
quote: No, you can't, but you can edit a post - just click on the pencil and paper icon at the top of the post you want to edit, and make the necessary changes. IP: Logged |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 03-17-2007 02:29 PM
Thanks for the tip Swarter. I'm just learning the ropes here and did not realise it was possible to edit your posts. Just removed the bad links. Cheers Debbie IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 03-18-2007 03:09 PM
As it happens, The Newark Museum has several of these 19th-century Austrian crosses in its collection--the stones are possibly foiled, but they would be neither topaz or amber, but citrines. Citrines are a quartz-family stone and often stand in as a less expensive alternate to topaz. As fancy as they are, these silver-gilt crosses were intended for a prosperous middle-class audience. Thus their design is ambitious and their workmanship is good--but not fabulous. I'll have to look at see if we have any images of the marks on ours--but the marks are on the pendant rings as here. [This message has been edited by Ulysses Dietz (edited 03-18-2007).] IP: Logged |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 03-18-2007 04:07 PM
Hello Ulysses Dietz Thank you so much for the info. I had no idea that some of these were in the Newark Museum. I just tried googling Newark Museum but for some reason seem to be having difficulty accessing the website. Maybe its temporarily unavailable. I will try again later. Yes please if you do find any other info about other similar pieces I would be fascinated to learn more. Were these intended for use as wearable jewellery ?? It is very big (4 x 2 1/2 inches) although I guess that it would be feasable if put on a long silver chain. Debbie IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 03-18-2007 06:58 PM
Just back from another trip.... I can't identify the mark here, but I think it's pretty clearly what is usually referred to as Hungarian Renaissance Revival (although it can come form elsewhere in the Austro-Hungarian Empire). These pieces are often rather oversize to fit in with ideas of Renaissance jewelry. They're also often gilt to look like gold, although all I've seen have been made of silver. Stones are semi-precious at best, sometimes even glass; as Ulysses says, these are most likely citrine quartz (not to be confused with citrine topaz). The principal market was the rising bourgeoisie of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, who wanted to be able to produce an image of longstanding wealth and status and reflect an interest in historical objects, and yes they were intended to be worn. I've always had a weakness for this style, although most people find them rather over-the-top.... IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-19-2007 09:35 AM
In addition to the middle-class folks buying and wearing these in an effort to display their wealth and piety, some of these types of large crosses were also used by clergy who often had several of them for use on different occasions. And it was not just in Eastern Europe. I have a more refined amethyst set one that came from a family estate whose ancestor was a bishop in Spain. It is always hard to tell from an internet photo and without having the object in your hand, but I agree with the others that the stones do not look like topaz. Amber is a possibility but I am not convinced it would be likely since 1) amber is so soft, 2)it does not do well with faceting, 3) it is warm to the touch while you said your stones are cool to the touch, and 4) it is normally full of little black specs. Citrine is the fancy name for yellow quartz and it is a definite possibility as the others have said, but another equally likely possibility is glass. The fact they are foiled on the back and the settings holding them in are on the crude side suggests to me that glass could be the slightly more likely material. A jeweler could help you determine for sure whether they are glass or citrine quartz. The pearls look like "mabe" pearls. This is a fancy word for the little bumps of nacre that grow on the inside surface of a salt water or fresh water oysters. The tradional pearl that most people think of are the spherical ones that form as loose concretions that roll around inside the shell. Mabe pearls are fairly common in these kinds of oysters and are sort of hemispherical in shape. They are obtained by cutting the bumpy areas out of the shell with a small saw. They can look nice when set in a flat piece of jewelry where you only need to see a portion of the pearl and where the half to two thirds of the pearl where it was cut from the shell and does not have the nice pearly surface is hidden by the setting. IP: Logged |
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collecting.dust Posts: 23 |
posted 04-06-2007 02:11 AM
Just returning back here to thank everyone for their replies. You thoughts and opinions were all very helpful to me Debbie IP: Logged |
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