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tline3open  silver plated button.

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Author Topic:   silver plated button.
silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-24-2007 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1505]

I've a few questions about this little silver plated button ( 1 inch wide ). It looks like a coin with a woman (en profil and queens looking?) and along the upper side of the button are placed 21 escutcheon/shields, very small and hardly to recognize. For in stance one with the french lelie, another with a lion etc.

I hope that some one of you recognize this person. I hope it's a historical person and really someone who has lived in the past.

Perhaps there is a indication possible by the way she looks or is dressed?

Thanks for reading this and I hope some have a idea about it.

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not recognize the woman. It is possible that this button may only portray an unknown woman who sat as a model for the sculptor who designed the button, or perhaps it was copied from an old portrait of someone that is hanging in a museum somewhere.

The way she is dressed suggests the style of clothes worn during the renaissance - it is hard to pin it down exactly. But of course this is not the time period when such a button would have been made. It is very common for people to use old designs when they make things and trying to date any silver or silver plated object by such designs is not very useful other than to set an earliest possible date. The most you can say for a woman's portrait like this one is that it is not likely much older than the 1600s but you already know that such an old date is not realistic for such a button. The question then is whether it is the 1700s, or 1800s, or 1900s, or even if it was made the day before you bought it since old designs are constantly being used again and again. If there are markings on the back then you would have a clue as to where to start such as when that company was in business. Or you can sometimes narrow down the timeframe by examining the constuction method by which it was made - though this can be tricky since old or primitive construction techniques are still being used today in many poorer countries around the world.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo, thank you for your reaction.

I supposed it's difficult to recognize this one. When I look at the pattern I'm wondering what kind of cloths this button is worn

One of the possibilities is perhaps a uniform from a foreign nation. I found this one in a big box and also buttons from the navy form instance. I think I never will know the answer. Since I collect (mostly) silvered things I just find out how many collectable things there are silverplated or in silver. Can you tell me please in a short way, what the meaning of the word coin silver is. Why I started this question is because I thought the way they made this button it looked at a copie of a coin.

The person is stamped over the shields and if I look with a lens it pretty made. Fine line structure but it's made not so long ago with a old replaced woman's portrait.

So I understand your reaction and thanks a lot for explain this one!

Greetings silverhunter.

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is no way to be sure unless someone recognizes this button, but I do not think it is from a uniform. Uniform buttons do not usually have a portrait of a woman on them. If this is a portrait of a Queen, it is unusual since most portraits of Kings and Queens are made showing them wearing their crowns.

The phrase 'coin silver' is a term that refers to solid silver that usually is somewhere about 90 percent pure silver. It is not an exact percentage like most silver alloys such as 800 silver or 925 silver. Coin silver is best known for American silver objects that were made until the late 1800s. Before that time, silver was difficult to obtain in America and most was imported from other countries. In those days it was common to recycle your old silver objects that were broken or worn out or perhaps just out of fashion. You would take them to a silver smith who would melt them all down in one crucible and make new things from it. It was common to add silver coins to the crucible to get even more silver. In those days, there were not enough silver coins made by the American government and so you would find silver and gold coins from many countries being used in America - coins from Mexico, Spain, Great Britain, and the Netherlands were the most commonly used ones. Because the silver content of everything that went into the crucible was different, the silver content of the metal that came out was never an exact percentage. It is normally some percentage in the range of 85 to 95 percent pure silver. Today, some smiths still like to make things out of coin silver but they do not make it like it used to be made. Modern day coin silver is 900 standard silver and it is used by smiths and companies to give the appearance of old coin silver when they make things in old patterns.

My guess about your button is that it came from a woman's dress or coat and is likely to be somewhere around the late 1800s or early 1900s. Such buttons normally were sold in sets of six, or sometimes more, and the nicer ones are solid silver and have the appropriate hallmarks. They were sold in dress-making shops, mostly, and when a woman had a new dress or coat made for her she would select the buttons and buy them separately. There are many people who collect old buttons and those are the ones who may best be able to tell you the most about this one.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for explaining the coin silver question, it's good to know that. Sometimes a saw those words in selling advertisements.

I just found a photo in my (only silver (information pocket book) and made a photo from a silver jug made in Königsberg around 1710 made by master Joh.Christian Wittpohl. The information is (translated from dutch): The feet with flat rim is very wide. Around the body there were placed at two hights : Brandenburg-Pruisisch and also Louis XIV coins. At the top a silver medal.

The owner never will let make coin silver from this one, that's for sure!

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gobus

Posts: 9
Registered: Sep 2007

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 02:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gobus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am a brand new member, but have already spent many happy hours reading in this inexhaustibly fascinating forum. I'm a modest collector, mainly of George III table silver but with broad interests. When I master the photograph technique, I'll post some curiosities. For now, I'd just like to suggest that this button is based on the most beautiful of Italy's modern coins: the 500 lire first issued in 1958 in .835 silver. You will find several examples illustrated if you search on e-bay for "Italy 500 lire." The design is by Pietro Giampoli, and shows a lady in Renaissance costume (perhaps inspired by the medals of Pisanello), surrounded by the shields of Italian cities. I don't think that your button is made from an actual coin, because the proportions are wrong, but that's where the design comes from.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 03:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much for the time you took to react and research for this one.

My compliments for knowing all these facts, I will search the coin you mentioned and can also see the differences. But it's for sure about each object there is a story to tell.(Based sometimes on historical facts).

Perhaps I've to search for the person in the Italian direction. It's always nice to put information with the object. I will print your reaction and put it to the Italian lady.

I hope to see your interesting silverobjects soon at this forum and from my side much pleasure a enjoin the hobby

greetings silverhunter.

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