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Author Topic:   Berlin
Manhasset

Posts: 10
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Manhasset     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1474]

Hello,

Some time ago, I asked for your help identifying some Russian niello spoons and forks. You all were most helpful in identifying these for me.

I now need some help with the marks on a WONDERFUL swan-handled cream jug which I am planning on giving to my godmother as a present. The jug weighs over 12 ounces. It has an assay scrape, what I assume is a Berlin bear, and a maker's mark.

Can anyone kindly tell me any more about the date of manufacture and the maker (Kraus)?

If you would like me to post a photo of the jug, I will gladly do this.

Many thanks in advance for any help.



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OWK

Posts: 69
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OWK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are these the only marks on the piece?

Or is there an additional single letter mark?

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Manhasset

Posts: 10
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Manhasset     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These two marks and the assay scrape are the only marks on the piece. Is that a capital Q in front of the bear's nose? Thanks.

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OWK

Posts: 69
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OWK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are correct in assuming a Berlin mark. (and that "Kraus" is the maker's mark.

Your jug was likely made after 1818 (when a secondary assayer's letter was added to the Berlin mark).

Someone else with more specific knowledge of German assayers and makers may be able to narrow the date range for you (or correct me if I'm wrong).

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doc

Posts: 712
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 11:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a beautiful piece! Hopefully, someone will be able to help with ID, but I just wanted to say thank you for sharing it.

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations, a beautiful piece.
Date 1817, 1. Zeichenmeister (assay master) H.W.Zarnack (17.10.1817-1819)
Master: Carl Lud(e)wig Kraus, 1777 to 1853, No. 308 in W. Scheffler: Berliner Goldschmiede,Berlin 1968.
A number of coffeepots and milkjugs by this master are known and listed there.

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Manhasset

Posts: 10
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-10-2007 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Manhasset     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much for the information. The jug is older than I had assumed by some 17 years, a very pleasant surprise indeed. How nice to get a mystery solved, and quickly!

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 08-11-2007 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with DOC it's a beautiful piece, stylistic, in good condition, nice shape.
You can be proud to give such one!!!
Only what I missed in the informations, (ofcourse great job by solving the question by others) is the silver percentage they used in that period?
Today I visit a market I don't think I can't find such one!
good luck!

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 08-11-2007 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Berlin standard of the time guaranteed by the assayer's mark was 12 löt, or .750 silver; any other, higher fineness should be so marked.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 08-12-2007 06:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Blakstone for information (again). I see there are a lot(h) of indications about silverpercentages. I think by knowing them it will help by determation silverpieces and which period they were made. So I was wondering about this one.
I've readed somewhere for instance 13 1/4 idication is the same for 828/1000 silverpercentage etc. But there are a lot of differences by using percentages that's for sure, in many countries. I visit yesterday a market in the neighbourhood and it was a shame to see many dammaged silverpieces for sale. There were sellers asking high prices for pieces without any marks.(but that's another story).
I think for sure that it is impossible to try to give you advise, I think you are a allround expert.(see it like a compliment!)
Greetings Silverhunter.

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Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 08-12-2007 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And what is so instructive in this piece is that, while it shares various stylistic features with other silver of its day, including American, it is clearly NOT American just from its design. Neoclassicism was the universal style language of the time, and yet individuality by nation and by maker are maintained, which I guess is a testimony to the creativity of the human mind...

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