SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  Samovar by Karol Malcz, Warsaw

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Samovar by Karol Malcz, Warsaw
silvart

Posts: 9
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 11-04-2007 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silvart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1526]

Hello!

The trigger for my interest in silverware was my family's inheritance of various - mostly Scandinavian - items as well as a Russian/Polish samovar. I simply had to know more about these items, their background and makers etc. I have learned a little bit about silverware by studying the internet. The internet is also the place where I got answers on some of my questions by searching the forums - not least this excellent one (thanks to especially blakstone and sazikov2000).

The silver samovar which is appearing on the photo was bought by one of my ancestors on a visit to Poland in about 1917 or 1920, probably in the Warsaw area in which he had relatives. The hallmarks on the second photo (here on one of the movable handles) has that the maker was Karol Filip Malcz, his trademark: the anchor, 'IC' (the assay master Josef Sosnkowski), '1869', '84' and a little mark I cannot decipher (a town mark?). These marks are engraved on every one of the six movable parts of the samovar.

As a novice re silverware I would like to ask the forum for help on answering some of the questions that turned up during my first 'investigation'.

  1. Is '1869' the year the samovar was made?
  2. If made in 1869, the samovar was made two years after Karol Malcz passed away (in 1867). How can this be explained? Is it certain that Malcz is the artist of this samovar?

  3. Or was the samovar made by one of the artists in his successor August Teodor Werner�'s staff who continued to use the name and hallmark of Malcz?

  4. I have 'traced' some of Malcz' works on the internet, but I have not found any hints of a silver samovar 'production'. Does anybody has any clue? Did Malcz/Werner make many samovars?

The samovar is 63 cm (25 in) high incl. chimney, (42 cm (17 in) excl. chimney) and about 27 cm (11 in) in diameter. Its weight is 4,700 g. As seen the shape of the samovar is spherical - or turnip - not one of the most common shapes of samovars.

Thank you in advance for any help.


IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 11-04-2007 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a partial answer for now, but yes, the 1869 date at least refers to the year the piece was assayed, which should be close if not identical to the year it was made. My presumption would be that Malcz ran a retail store, where he may have retailed pieces made by others (if this is not typical of his production), and which may have remained in business for some time after his death (not an unusual situation in many places, and as you suggest in point 3).

What are routinely referred to as "makers' marks" in many (most?) parts of the world often reflect someone other than the actual maker of the piece so-marked. It is becoming common on British silver to use the term "sponsor's mark" instead, for example, but I hate that term and personally prefer to revel in the ambiguity of "maker".

BTW, the marks are not engraved but stamped - using steel punches struck by hammer to stamp the mark into the silver. People tend to be pretty careful to distinguish this from engraving, where a design is cut into the silver with sharpened tools.

[This message has been edited by FWG (edited 11-04-2007).]

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 11-04-2007 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think I have ever seen a silver samovar before. Heard of them, but not seen one.

Looking at the piece, you show it as having been assembled from a number of parts. It appears to me that this piece was stamped or made in a mold. Posthumous items frequently indicate that the firm continued on or was drawing down parts already produced. Or that this was a copyrighted design, owned by his estate.

Nice piece. Do you have the pot or urn?

IP: Logged

blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-04-2007 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If memory serves me, the Malcz firm continued for a number of years after his death, and was eventually succeeded in the 1870's by T. Werner & Co., who continued to use Malcz' "anchor" trademark.

IP: Logged

silvart

Posts: 9
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 11-05-2007 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silvart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, FWG, for valuable info about the approval of the year the samovar was made/assayed, about "makers' mark" and the differences between engraved and stamped marks.

Yes, Malcz ran a retail store in Warsaw. According to Malcz' biography which was cited in this forum (sazikov2000's post of 01.10.2006) "..he opened his own workshop in 1928. He obtained numerous awards and developed his workshop into a large enterprise, employing up to 50 people, including professional artists. The majority of products, however, were designed, and many made personally, by him....In 1864 he gave control of the factory to his partner August Teodor Werner (1836-1902)."

Probably I will never get to know who was the true "maker" and I am not able to valuate a possibly similarity in style between this samovar and other products from Malcz. Besides, Malcz also developed/changed his style. We may conclude that Malcz theoretically could has designed the piece but almost certainly not had made it. Agree?

Dale,
Thank you for the comments to the samovar. I was not quite exact when I described the marks and the parts they are stamped on. The samovar has only six (movable) parts but seven sets of stamps (two set of stamps on the body/foot-part of the samovar; one on the foot and one of the upper part). Besides the two handles on the body which are movable - I don't think the building of this samovar differs from that of others re movable parts. That is: the body, lid with small handles, pot base and chimney.

No, there is no pot to the samovar.

blakstone,
seems your memory serves you well re trademark etc.. Please, see the citation in my comments to FWG. Thank you very much.

And, does anybody have a clue as to the little mark to the right of "84"?
Thanks again.

IP: Logged

blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 11-05-2007 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The little mark is indeed the city mark for Warsaw (or, more accurately, the mark of the Russian Imperial Assay Office in Warsaw) and is the famous Russian Imperial double-headed eagle.

IP: Logged

silvart

Posts: 9
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 11-05-2007 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silvart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another important piece of information.
Thanks blakstone

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2019 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices