SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  silver wedding coin gift.

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   silver wedding coin gift.
silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-23-2009 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1850]

Today I've ordered the silver(?) wedding coin. I'm curious if it is a silver one and I think it is not a original one which were given with wedding by the bridegroom to the bride in a silver wedding box. I've never seen such silver box or wedding coins my self, so this one which is placed into as pendant(?)hope translation is good)fixed at a chain. When it is a original it should be great of course but I think it can be a later copy. If it is silver I'm of course glad, knowing they made also amulets of pewter or copper.

The front shows a marriage couple of two young people dressed in clothes from the 17 th century, the back side shows two pigeons I believe a sign of love. I suppose the rim has some Latin words and if I have received it I will ask if some member will be so kind to translate these words.

Watching the postman and waiting until the mailbox is filled with a original coin of the 17th century (what I doubt to be honest) it is nice to know that even in the 17th century a man had to be fortuned to give some silver coins in a special silver wedding box to show his love, or want to buy a new bride? wink . I think the first. Reaction (or threads)from feminist are not taking serious of course.

Serious continue is that I will react again if the coin is received and I can make better photo's from it, in stead of a unclear computer screen. Meanwhile I look for more information about this subject of course.
The coin is 4,6 cm.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much for repairing the topic!

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A little research about will learn that in earlier days the bridegroom gave the father of the bride pieces of cattle or a piece of land. Of course this was done by many nationalities and is still done by certain population groups in the world.

The silverbox ( "knottenkistje", dutch word was given to this special silver box) it was called like this, because when the Dutch law/tax changed this kind of this little bridegroom wedding treasures given to the father of the bride.

In stead of the "knottenkistje"(silverbox) there were used a cloth in which some silver wedding coins were buttond up.

I think the button( dutch word translation "knoop" was formerly called knot).

So button cloth can be translated as "knottedoek". Or silver button box is translation for "knottenkistje". I hope you don't fell in sleep with all these interesting? information.

The baroque style is used formerly,also decorated with sleeping of standing putto's.

The silver boxes were engraved with marriage symbols from the bible or Greek mythological design.

The bride offered the lady a silver box and said the words:

    Do you want it?
    If you want than you keep the silverbox.
    If you don't than you give it back.

You see the Dutchman were also in the 17th century smart? I show you some knottenkistjes/silver wedding boxes, perhaps you already knew these one's but I always like history behind pieces.

I hope corrections will follow because it was a attempt from my side!

The silver wedding boxes were still made in the late 19th century but I suppose that nowadays a silversmith likes to make one for a wedding present or make a coin for the wedding day just for remembering.


IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great story newer heard of it before. In Denmark we dont have that tradition.
The second box you show .... It is a buaty I want it...

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Hose_DK,

I've have found two examples which you can buy at internet, but that aren't these one's.

Sometimes at auction websites, they offer the old one's from about the 17th century.

Quality and age form expensive values.

I wonder if people who marry in Scandinavia, if their family still give silver pieces of flatware etc. at the wedding to the bride and bridegroom or is that only in Norway?

I hope all is well in Denmark and I wonder if you have bought something special made of silver, than I hope you will topic again.

Greetings Silverhunter.(Andre).

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello no silver in Denmark for gifts. Only steel and design (junk).
Silver is out in denmark.
I shall put a small swedish item.

by the way I am comming to Amsterdam soon. I am going cruising from Copenhagen - UK - Norway - France - Netherlands - Belgium - Guernsy.

[This message has been edited by Hose_dk (edited 05-24-2009).]

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice trip, looks great. I've lived in Amsterdam and I think with this weather there are a lot of visitors. The museum in Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum)gets a facelift but there is lot to see in the city and also in the other cities like you mentioned. So enjoy your trip and have a good time.

The Rijksmuseum gets his renovation until 2013, only for 504 million euro they do the job.

A part of the museum is still open and from 21 April 2009 is started is a exposition of dutch paintings from the 17th century. There are also some beautiful silver objects to see made by the silversmiths Vianen (late 16th century and early 17th century).

But I think you already have your own program and so enjoy the journey.

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 05-24-2009 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well thanks for the tip. We have planned the cruise - but currently we (wife & I) are in a process of planning in details.

I for my part love Varnmeer and the Nightwatch is somehow the theme on board ms Eurodam.

My wife says that I should not visit antique dealers. She is right smile

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-25-2009 04:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to say have a nice trip to you both. I think you're lucky you may talk about antique shops, I only may think about that. When I earn some extra money, the most of it goes to my wife, I don't complain of course because sometimes I may spend €5,- in a week. When you type the world Amsterdam on your side, there is a lot of information of course, you also can take a "museum touring boat", the boats are lying in front of the central station in Amsterdam. The boats bring the visitors to museum etc. You can step out and after visiting an attraction you take another boat to continue your visit in Amsterdam so you can see a lot and can travel on the water, seeing the canals in town.

It's forbidden from my side to publish names of websites, so no SNIPS will follow in this topic. I have learned a lot. If you want I can send you a list of antique shops, auctions halls,etc. Make a lot of compliments to your wife and you will see a lot of silver.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-29-2009 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Today I've received the silver medallion. After cleaning I've found two little (just a few mm) silver stamps in the rim at the back of the medallion.

At the front the medallion is decorated with a 17th century dressed couple and the man ask the lady to marry.

Above the couple sunlight falls over them. In the rim are standing the latin (?) words:

    praeside coelitati haltiu luceque beatum.

I hope somebody can give a translation for these words, I would be most thankful!

I think the medallion is a copy of a earlier medallion because in the 17th century the letter U was writed in words as a V so it could have been original:

    praeside coelitati haltiv lvceque beatvm.

I think the medallion is a reproduction of early 20th century ore late 19th century.

I will try to read the worse letters standing in a rim at the back side, where two pigeons sitting a garland with flowers and fruit and there above two burning harts.

The two little marks is a old sword with indication of the figures 835(second silver alloy)and a (star + N + 10 stamped in a little rectangle)that could be a assay office mark?

These kind of marriage coins were given in the wedding box of silver to the bride and the coins early dated were made from gold.




IP: Logged

agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 05-29-2009 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is over 50 years since I last grappled with Latin at school. The weak grasp I had then has become ever rustier. However, I'll have a go at your Latin phrase. I think it means something like "Protect happiness by the breath and the light of the heavens" or, to turn it into better English, "May the breath and light of heaven protect your happiness", which seems appropriate for a marriage token.

If a better Latin scholar cares to step forward with a more accurate translation I shall be only too pleased. I recall my parents were not too impressed when I tried to claim some credit for having been "top of the failures" after one Latin exam at school.

[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 05-29-2009).]

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-29-2009 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for give the best try and translation, it is nice to know now the combination with the wedding medallion.

Are you familiar with this kind of medallions or wedding coins, since a short while I learn the history.

I have to find out the date and also if it is a reproduction from a earlier one. So a lot of research will be done.

Thank you for taking time and reaction, also with the translation I will put the information together with the medallion.

IP: Logged

regjoe

Posts: 6
Registered: May 2009

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for regjoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been enjoying your posts here about this item , as well as the story of the wedding coin(s).

My Latin is pretty rusty , but it sure looks like auphile hit it right on the button .

I'm awaiting new posts in this interesting thread , silverhunter !

IP: Logged

dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Had seen the marriage caskets before but didn't realize that special coins were used. If I understand your description correctly, this one is most likely fairly recent, the sword mark with 835 would date to 1953 or later, the *N10 mark would indicate the maker. Have seen the maker's mark fairly often on Dutch souvenir spoons, thought that I'd jotted down who used it, but can't seem to find it now.

~Cheryl

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regjoe and Dragonflywink thank you both for reaction.

So research is helped a lot by this information. Until now original there were given golden or silver(?) coins in the wedding box/caskets to the bride. When I'm right from late 16th until 19th century.

I suppose there are romantic people who use this tradition now a days for instance this reproduction of the wedding medallion/coin.

It could also made nowadays for remembering the wedding as special gift to the family.
When I know the *N 10 mark it should be great, like you said Dragonflywink these kind of silver marks can be find at jewelry.

Some jewelry from my mother-in-law made in combination in little decorated Delft blue painted stoneware pieces. There's no Year letter indication mark to be find. Normal there are four silver marks : Minerva head, silversmith/factory, year letter,silver lion with figure II or 2.

I've checked it Dragonflywink and the sword is from the period 1906-1953. In that period they stamped the alloy of 835 or 925 into the sword. Concern the back side and text in the rim it is not to translate the form of the letters. I think this coin's matrix isn't made very clear or the letters were not made clear enough at this size. Perhaps some day I see a original one that should be great, I will continue the research but thanks again you both for reaction and supply of information.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 04:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also Cheryl thanks! Dragonflywink is kwown as you.

IP: Logged

dragonflywink

Posts: 993
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly, but if the "835" is present in the sword mark, it would date from September 1953 to present. That was when those marks were put into use and when 2nd standard changed from .833 to .835 and 1st standard from .934 to .925. Smaller items are quite often found without date letters or the Minerva Assay office mark, and it's allowed under the regulations.

~Cheryl

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OH, you're so good etc. I have read the correction and say you are right (Of course you will think etc). Thanks for explaining the mystery swords indication.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 05-30-2009 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still I have one question how is it possible that the words aren't clear to read at the rim at the backside.

Is there used a matrix with unclear letter type?

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-01-2009 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The correct word in English for such a coin shaped object is "token". The work "coin" is normally used only when the object is a unit of money issued by a government. If you go on Ebay or other places like that, go to "coins and paper money", then go to the subcategory "exonumia". You will find tokens that commemorate weddings, tokens that commemorate weddings of royalty, tokens that are made from coins that have been engraved as love tokens given from one person to another, and similar objects.

IP: Logged

blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-01-2009 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The “*N10” mark is that of the prolific firm of Gebr. Niekerk of Schoonhoven: brothers Jacobus Gerrit Jan Niekerk (1866-1949) and Gerrit Jan Niekerk (1870-1949). The company was founded by their father Jacob Pieter Niekerk in 1862 and assumed by them upon his death in 1900. It was under the directorship of Gerrit’s son Jan Niekerk (1902-1968) when this token was made. (The “*N10” mark was in use only 1951-1970, which corresponds well with the post-1953 dagger mark.) The company, which indeed specialized in small novelties, souvenir spoons and the like, was still in business as late as 1997.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-02-2009 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much Blakstone for the extremely detailed answer, I'm helped a lot with it.

Perhaps the letter N is used as the first letter of family name Niekerk? I don't know if there is a special book about these silver marks (combination of star-letter-number), if there is can you please send me the name of it.
You can find a lot of this silver marks over here placed at little pieces, like you told for instance jewelry. It should be useful to know a book about these one's, if it exists of course?

I make a copy of your reaction and put it (again) with the medallion as combination with your reaction.

THANKS A LOT.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-02-2009 02:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo,

Also many thanks for your reaction and good information. I will copy the two names considering the indication like the tokes are mentioned. I can look at internet more directly research for to find some more information.
Good to know these words and also I THANK YOU A LOT.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-02-2009 03:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This morning I've found another "token", made by the Brothers company Niekerk in Schoonhoven (in the same period), perhaps there is a link to a business address in Schoonhoven, family relative and I will write them and get still some more information concerning if it is a copy of an older example with is used in early days.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices