SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  M.HAMMER 830S mark

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   M.HAMMER 830S mark
SoCalSis

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2009

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 02:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SoCalSis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1872]

Hello, all. Recently, while helping my mother move, I was given the assignment of managing the variety of silver items that had come down to her from several branches of the family. Taking a closer look at this wonderful world of silver has made me very interested in the varieties of silver, plate, coin, hallmarks, makers, and most of all the social history that is reflected by it all.

I have a few questions that I could not find answered using the search function. First is a silver (cake?) server that is unfortunately broken from its handle. The reverse of the handle is marked clearly M.HAMMER 830S. I'll try to add my photos. I gather that Marius Hammer is a prominent Norwegian silversmith (?) but I've not found anything connecting that Marius with this hallmark; neither have I found anything about this hallmark otherwise. Marius' work seems much more Art Nouveau/Deco than my piece.

I did see some mention of a "M. Hammer" working with Danish coin silver in 1742, but nothing beyond that.

Could anyone shed light on my case? Who is M. Hammer? What is this piece designed for? And... do people repair these things? It's just beautiful, but I wouldn't know where to start.

Here goes with the photos (fingers crossed):

IP: Logged

SoCalSis

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2009

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SoCalSis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Already I forgot something... The handle measures 5.25 inch, the blade measures 3.25.
Thanks for your help. I've found this site to be very informative-- and fascinating.

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
nice piece and shame it is broken. It can be repaired but it is expensive. You might as well buy one intact.

But that lacks family legacy - and the it is (might be) worth repair. It is not a question of dollar value but family.

Marius Hammer worked in Bergen from 1847 - your spade is around 1900 (+ - say 20 years)

IP: Logged

dragonflywink

Posts: 975
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boy, you did everything right on your first post! The only improvement would have been a close-up of the mark, but not really necessary in this case.

It is a cake knife or pastry server, and that is a mark used by Bergen-based Marius Hammer (1847-1927). Most of my references are unavailable to me at the moment, but feel sure that other members will correct my errors. If I recall correctly, he took over the family silver business in the 1870s-80s, the Norwegian "830S" mark on your piece came into use in the early 1890s. It was a large shop, producing everything from souvenir items to royal commissions, believe they closed down shortly after his death. It's a lovely piece, with typical Scandinavian decoration - I would look for a reputable silversmith to repair it, especially considering the family connection.

~Cheryl

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice pieces you have!Dragonflywink told you the history of Marius Hammer. Like Hose_Dk told you it is possible to repear but it is expensive. Perhaps there is a futuring silversmith in the family or you can try a education school for silverworks and only have to pay the silver, it good be a learning/study object. I ever have soldered a handle at a plated cream mug it was succeed for the result what I hoped, it should be.(What is quality?).
It is always good to phone several located jewelry shops for notice the differences in prices. Marius Hammer is a name and was a good silversmith he also worked with silver in combination with enamal, he used also filigree, and dragon (flywink) style.
The question is unanswered about the first silver item you showed (sorry).

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Discovery, M.H. is using a silvermark and it is symbolic with his name: The letter M and in the centre is a Hammer(up side down) I never noticed it untill now. He also used the 900/930 silver alloy. This is what you call breaking news(?).

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
repair might not be difficult - but it will be week where repaird. Tha "rat tail" is there to strenght the piece.

Try repair on your own? - I think not. What will you say if it melts? you can destry more than you think.
To melt/repair you need a silver contents not similar to the item. Silver that melts with a lower degree thar the spoon - I would neverb try that myself.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes you're right you better let do it by proffesionals. I ever distroyed a pewter piece thought I good make that, but didn't.
Important is to know the melting point(degrees). Does anybody know where the first object is used for?

IP: Logged

SoCalSis

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2009

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SoCalSis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So nice to get such a speedy reply!! Sorry to be unclear in my original post. These 4 pics are all of one (broken) piece, front and back of blade and handle.

I did see frequent mention of Marius Hammer and his mark (M with crosssed hammers) but not in connection with this straight 'M.HAMMER' mark. Perhaps he used it early in his career, before he really came into his own as a master smith? Does anyone know when the 'M with crossed hammers' was first used?

Thanks again!

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no he did not use any mark before he became - your puiece is around 1900 as I wrote.

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm confussed as always:"where is the first object use for",was my question?. I have made a new appointment with the man of the spectacles shop. He also said it was necesarry. So that strong handle is broken of that beautiful engraved top end. How on earth is that possible? I have only two pieces with the M.H. hammer mark, I look tomorrow if there is standing a data in it.
A stick my head under a pillow I'm not home!

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 06-28-2009 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the "old days" the only way to repair would have been to solder the two pieces, perhaps adding a reinforcing piece for strength. It's not hard to do, requires silver-solder and a torch, and jigs or frames or wires to hold the pieces in the proper alignment. And experience, of course.

Nowadays there's another option available in many places, which is laser-welding. Because this doesn't require heating the entire piece, like soldering does, the hardening that has been worked into the metal isn't lost. If you search the forums you should find at least one or two threads with discussion and examples. Even here in tiny ol' Ithaca there's a shop that does it, but I haven't managed to get over and try a few pieces to check them out. But in general the results I've seen from online examples have been impressive.

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another option, if there is sentimental value but not a real enthusiasm for serving pastries, is to have these made into jewelry. The blade would be a great pendent while the handle could become a bracelet. Runs for cover.

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since it is a family heirloom I agree that it would be worth having repaired. The cost of the repair will likely exceed the value of the repaired cake server - but that is not the point when it comes to family heirlooms. You need to keep in mind that a good silversmith is a highly trained and skilled artist whose tools are not inexpensive and their time and expertise and cost to maintain their workshop need to be fairly compensated. Take your time finding a good silversmith and ask to see examples of his repair work. Also ask him what technique he would use on your cake server and how he restores the strength of the metal after the heating reduces it.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 06-29-2009).]

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good iformation FWG about silver solder I didn't knew that it excist, I try to buy some for trying to repair little things.
The laser method sounds good and is technical new for me.

Also good idea Dale I ever saw a bracelet made out of a fork. It was also nice done.
Your idea should give two silver pieces like you said. And it stays in the family.

IP: Logged

SoCalSis

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2009

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SoCalSis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again for all your help. The details of the repair possibilities are helpful. I've been learning a lot about cleaning, repair and maintenance of this lovely old silver. As for this piece, I'm still pondering its fate. I do like the bracelet idea for the handle-- the artwork on the end is lovely.

As my aunt's inlaws were from Norway the history you've come up with makes perfect sense. Also to let you know that in parcelling out the silver to my siblings (wanting to make sure everyone had something nice) I gave my sister the twin to this server; her server is NOT broken. (Aren't I nice?? *smile*) So now I have a few options. I could repair the server and keep it. Repair and give it to my sister for a nice set. Or keep the broken pieces as a keepsake family memento. Stay Tuned! and Thanks for your very kind help in giving this neophyte a friendly introduction to the world of old silver.

IP: Logged

Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Give it to your sister and let them stay together. Sister can descide if she want repair done.

It is importent that things in pair stay together. You will never find another match.

Think of candle sticks one of a pair for each.
Sugar & cream for one - coffee pot for the other etc

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-29-2009 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with keeping them together, but only if your sister would appreciate it and not wind up selling the broken server to melt down for scrap value (some people actually do not share the love of old silver that folks like you and we do smile ). If so, one option in addition to having the handle fashioned into a bracelet you could have the blade made into brooch by smoothing the break area and adding a nice pin and catch on the back. That way you would have matching pieces of jewelry and the server would be together in a way.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 06-29-2009).]

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices