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Early French Fork and Spoon

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Author	Topic: Early French Fork and Spoon
Brent Posts: 1507 Registered: May 99	posted 03-18-2003 03:55 PM [01-1017] This old French spoon and fork set is one of my favorite things, not because it is particularly beautiful, but because it just seems to ooze history. The pieces are massive, and obviously a bit the worse for wear. The fork tines are cut down, the spoon bowl is rolling over, and the marks and engraving are worn, but that's just part of the story. The pieces have upturned ends with little "tips", sort of like a cross between the "dognose" and the "Hanoverian" styles in English silver. Can anyone give me an idea of date for this style in French silver? The backs of the handles are decorated with worn crests, which appear to feature a tree in a cartouche. Each piece has three identical marks, all badly worn. The lowest one is likely a maker's mark, in the 18th C "Quatrefoil" style. The only discernible remanant is a lone S on one piece. The next mark up appears to be a crowned K, which would be a town/date mark, if I understand early French marks. Finally, the mark on top, while the clearest, has eluded my attempts to pin it down. I have provided a closeup, if anyone can help ID it. I would love to know where this set has been all its life, and what adventures it has seen. How did it manage to survive? How did it end up in Oakland, CA, where I found it? Anyway, I like it! Brent IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-18-2003 10:29 PM Your top mark is the Rennes charge mark for 1705-21. Your second mark is the date letter for 1713-14. The third mark is the maker's mark of "Jeanne Sais Qui" or "Jeanne Sais Quoi" . As far as the history they were stolen from my family about 200 years ago, by a servant whose family eventually went to California with a Spanish master. Would you like to return them? Ok that's not the whole truth. In case you don't understand French, the first two marks are as identified, but the third mark sounds like "I don't know who" or "I don't know what" in French... meaning your guess is as good as mine. I only had one distant relative in Rennes, should I check and see if they are missing any silver? Maurice IP: Logged
Brent Posts: 1507 Registered: May 99	posted 03-19-2003 10:21 AM Thanks, Maurice! I believe you have nailed it. I knew they were 18th C, but I am surprised that they are quite that old. Anyway, I am glad to know more about them. Thanks again! Brent IP: Logged
doobees Posts: 277 Registered: Jan 2003	posted 03-20-2003 11:47 AM Bonjour! I was just checking the site while back in the Mother Country and couldn't resist a quick reply. Until I get back to my references, I won't be much help with the marks. The "Jeanne Sais Quoi" has no negatives (ex:ne pas) in it so it'd be more like "Jeanne Knows What"... Now this is a stretch but, though Jeanne D'Arc was more a 1420's kinda girl, she is often quoted as saying "I don't know what is going to be expected of me..." "I don't know what the messages mean..." "I don't know what one young girl can do to change the situation in France..." Possibly the maker had a devotion to Jeanne D'Arc and wanted to express his opinions on what Jeanne knew? Yeah, I know... it's a stretch, but there are Jeanne D'Arc memorials and statues all over the country... She has quite a big fan club in France, even to this day. ------------------ Suzanne D IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-20-2003 06:45 PM Mon Dieu, A bad joke is one that has to be explained. In case anyone cares, I don't know the maker's mark, I am not sure I could identify it even if it was more legible, because I only know a few makers from Rennes. The joke was an abbreviation of "Je ne sais pas qui": or "Je ne sais pas quoi". Which I meant to say sounds like Jeanne Saisqui (There is an S in the mark unfortuneately no P). Of course there were essentially no French female silversmiths so the joke fails twice. Now I am getting a lesson in the Freedom language (my Republican friends says I must no longer say French language). I must try to be more serious. Amicalement, A+ Maurice IP: Logged
FredZ Posts: 1070 Registered: Jun 99	posted 03-20-2003 07:48 PM Maurice, Your humor and puns are greatly appreciated! Don't make any change. Fred IP: Logged
doobees Posts: 277 Registered: Jan 2003	posted 03-20-2003 09:56 PM D'accord, oubliez tout ca... (OK, forget all that.)You guys have to be careful - we fledgelings believe everything you say and we bow to our gurus... It's hard to know when you're joking or imparting your wisdom... but, once we get the joke - it's tres drole (very funny!) (I will be more useful though, once I get back to my books in "FREEDOM.") ------------------ Suzanne D IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-20-2003 10:03 PM It is, sometimes, very tempting, but I resist. So far. wev IP: Logged
labarbedor Posts: 353 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 03-21-2003 11:32 AM Sorry, reform only lasts so long. That is an entireley improper use of the word Freedom, MMe Suzanne. "France" is a word in the Republican handbook, as in "France is full of rude people". Also "French" as a noun is also perfectly acceptable as in " The French don't bathe very often". However "French" as an adjective is forbidden by the powers that be. As in "Freedom fries" (which we say were invented in Belgium anyway). Hence I presume in France, we French speak the Freedom language amd are all republican (small R). By the way I shower at least once a day, and I am unfailingly polite (unless provoked). A Plus Tard or A+ Or Later Maurice IP: Logged
doobees Posts: 277 Registered: Jan 2003	posted 03-21-2003 08:57 PM Geez Monsieur Maurice - now my head is spinning and I hardly know my freedoms from my french from my francais from my fries... ------------------ Suzanne D IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4121 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-21-2003 09:04 PM Hey, it's all Greek to me. . . IP: Logged

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