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tline3open  18th century silver hilt cuttoe/ hunting sword

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Author Topic:   18th century silver hilt cuttoe/ hunting sword
sajah

Posts: 8
Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 09-28-2004 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am trying to identify an 18th century silver hilt cuttoe. The handle is horn and the blade is saw back. The hilt is cast and chaste silver depicting fruit baskets and nudes on either side. The silver hallmark is an oval with the letters "FR" inside. Can anyone help identify this sword?
here are pics:


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swarter
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Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 09-28-2004 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you know the national origin of the sword?

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sajah

Posts: 8
Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 09-29-2004 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am confused as to the nationality because it looks continental but the mark might be from Francis Richardson Jr. a Philadelphia silver smith during the early 1700's

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 09-30-2004 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mark on the scabbard tip does not match any published mark of Francis Richardson, Jr. that I can find, nor can I find any mention of a sword or sword hilt by him. The mark on the hilt is unclear in the photograph.

The term cuttoe ia also applied to military short swords and naval cutlasses. The design on the langet has a French feel about it. Why would a hunting sword have a langet in the first place? Perhaps it was a ceremonial or presentation piece?

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vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aren't all silver mounted swords presentation or ceremonial? But then I would expect some engraving explaining the event of it's presentation. Is there a scabbard? Does the pommel cap unscrew? Perhaps there is a mark on the tang?

[This message has been edited by vathek (edited 10-01-2004).]

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my eye it seems to be too fancy for a working blade but too plain for either a presentation blade or dress blade for a higher level officer. My initial thought is that it may more likely be a dress blade for a lower level officer. The curling way the end of the cross-guard is finished reminds of German region blades of the 1800s I have seen.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Aren't all silver mounted swords presentation or ceremonial? But then I would expect some engraving explaining the event of it's presentation.

Of 81 silver hilted swords listed in Peterson's American Silver Mounted Swords 1700-1815 only one bears a presentation inscription. The only engraving on others, if any, consists of owner's names and date of aquisition, the silversmith's name and/or various patriotic words or slogans. Since most swords were purchased by their owners, most of the silver mounted swords may have been worn by more well-to-do officers as status symbols. Of the 81 listed examples, 17 are categorized as small swords, and the remainder are either hunting swords or officer's sabers. Those of known provenance belonged to officers of all ranks, from Lieutenant to General. None of these bears a langet.

Peterson considers this the "classic period" of American silver mounted swords, and that after this period, silver hilts became "more ponderous rococo" designs, bearing "more resemblance to the craft of the jeweler than of the pure silversmith."

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sajah

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Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have carefully inspected the sword and it does not appear to come apart in any way.

Here is a better image of the mark and a super-imposed image of Francis Richardson's mark, they look really similar to me but what do you all think?

I know this may be a left field theory, but if it is Francis Richardson, I know he had a frequent client by the name of William Penn who was famous for often carrying a sword, he was also of the right station and means to commission such a sword.

What do you think?

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sajah

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Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a better image of the mark and a super-imposed image of Francis Richardson's mark, they look really similar to me but what do you all think?

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sajah

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Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More Information on the sword: the blade itself is 21 1/2" long, it's very sharp and well balanced. It may have been just for show but it sure seems functional to me. I have seen many swords like this under the category "Hangar" but only one made of Silver and it's in a museum in England.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It appears I misinterpreted the top photograph as an unusual decorated tip of a scabbard, when it is actually the expanded central portion of the knuckle bow, which is overexposed and unclear in the third photograph. That mark is clear enough, and does not look like any published Richardson mark for either Francis Sr. or Jr.

The Richardsons were Quakers and it has been suggested by Fales in her Richardson monograph that as such they would not have made swords. Although their names appear in one or two lists of swordmakers, there are no known examples, and they are not in the lists of known makers of silver-hilted swords; Joseph Richardson is known by entries in his surviving day book to have repaired one or two silver hilts, but there is nothing to indicate that he ever made one, although he may have received one from another silversmith.

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sajah

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Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you don't believe this to be Francis Richardson's mark, do you have any idea as to what the mark is? I should have been more specific on the photo identifications, the mark is located on the knuckle bow, also, I should mention that the blade is double edged with a saw back on one side. There are similar swords pictured in the Victoria & Albert Museum European Swords Book by Anthony North on page 37

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All I can tell you is that I do not recognize this offhand as an American mark, and there is no onn else with these initials in the lists I have examined of American silversmiths who are known to have made silver hilted swords. I do not find it in what English literature I have, either. I am not knowledgeable enough of European swords to judge whether or not this one is or is not European, and I do not have that literature. The mark, however, appears to have a crown within the reserve above the initials; except in earlier periods, such marks could well be European.

There are a number of excellent internet sites, some with excellent illustrations, which deal with collectable swords - If you have not already done so, you can search through Google and see what you can find.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 10-01-2004 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
it looks continental but the mark might be from Francis Richardson Jr. a Philidelphia silver smith during the early 1700's

quote:
I know this may be a left field theory, but if it is Francis Richardson, I know he had a frequent client by the name of William Penn who was famous for often carrying a sword, he was also of the right station and means to commision such a sword, what do you think?

Well, I have looked up a few things, and I think it is not out in left field, but entirely out of the park. Francis Richardson, Jr. was born in 1705, four years after Penn had returned to England where he remained until his death in 1718, so your scenario could not possibly have occurred. In addition, Penn was a strict Quaker, and he is unlikely to have carried a sword. He was portrayed in military regalia when he served in the King's Army in England prior to his conversion to Quakerism, so that painting may be the source of your association of him with a sword, but it should not have been carried over to this continent (his father, Admiral William Penn, could also have been so portrayed, and could be confused with his son). No American swords are known before 1700, so Francis, Sr., who was also a silversmith (and an early Quaker immigrant), could not (and, as a Quaker, probably would not) have made it for Penn, either (although he could have provided domestic silver to Penn at an earlier date, so you could have confused father and son). So. it appears you are going to have to look elsewhere.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 10-01-2004).]

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sajah

Posts: 8
Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-02-2004 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I put in William Penn and the word sword into my search engine I got quite a few hits about a conversation between William Penn and another gentleman about the fact that he always wore a sword. There are also receipts in the Richardson papers where William Penn purchased silver shoe buckles for his daughter from Francis Richardson (I guess it must have been his father) Never the less, it still leaves me at the same place where I started, I still don't know anything about this sword.

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akgdc

Posts: 289
Registered: Sep 2001

iconnumber posted 10-04-2004 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I own an 18th-century French cuttoe and scabbard (hallmarks for Paris, 1756) and have researched these swords a bit. They were quite popular in the mid-18th century and were manufactured in large numbers. The silver mounts are often quite decorative, and the grips can be ivory, bone, wood, or horn; the hilts often do have langets (for whatever reason). The German examples are rather common, the French ones slightly less so. English and American examples are rare.

The primary use of these short swords seems to have been in hunting, to dispatch wounded quarry and perhaps butcher it as well (as with the sawtoothed examples). Hunting was a gentleman's pastime, and therefore this could well have been a "working blade." (Remember that this was the era when even bridle fittings, etc were sometimes made of silver.)

Cuttoes also are sometimes depicted in paintings as part of military officers' accoutrements, circa 1740s-60s. In 18th-century Europe, there was often little distinction between military and nonmilitary equipment and uniforms. Officers, in particular, usually carried whatever sword they thought most dashing and fashionable (with usefulness a secondary consideration). For a short time, the cuttoe was very much in vogue.

From its style and mark, your cuttoe is almost certainly a German mid-18th-century example. Unless there are other hallmarks, it will be hard to pin down, since "FR" are very common initials, and many German silversmiths made such hilts. (They often bear only the maker's mark and no other hallmarks, or are unmarked.) Because of its sawtooth blade, it seems very unlikely that it had a military use (gentlemen officers of the 18th century were not in the habit of dismembering their vanquished foes).

As to the cuttoe's past ownership, in the absence of any inscription or provenance you are free to imagine anything you like. (Certainly some of these swords were brought to America in the 18th century, so it may possibly have a colonial association.) William Penn, however, died in 1718, and so -- religious considerations aside -- he could not have worn your sword, which was made at least a quarter-century later.

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sajah

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Registered: Sep 2004

iconnumber posted 10-04-2004 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sajah     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for your information. That helps a lot.

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akgdc

Posts: 289
Registered: Sep 2001

iconnumber posted 10-04-2004 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad the information helped.

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