posted 10-06-2005 09:25 AM            

Over the years I've run across a number of examples of silver marked with both an 84 like Russian silver and other marks, like a chrysanthemum or kanji. Kanji can be Japanese or Chinese, of course, and a few of these pieces have looked Chinese but most seem Japanese.

My presumption has been that these represented work done in Japan during the period of Russian occupation in the late 19th century. Some pieces could also date to the mid-twentieth century by style.

I have seen nothing written on such marks. Does anyone know of information? Here I show a set of 4 teaspoons, in 2 bowl shapes. The mark on each is a pair of 5-lobed flowers flanking the 84 mark. They also have in large letters the word MOJI, which was a port on Kyushu beginning in 1889, handling trade between Japan and the continent.

I'm just really curious if there's anything known on what seems to be this not uncommon but apparently undocumented piece of silver history.

posted 10-06-2005 05:28 PM            

I do not know when they were adopted, but they look nothing like those on your spoons.

Since the spoons look oriental in design, I am wondering if they were made for export and duty stamped by the Russians. Chinese and Japanese wares were the rage in late 19th c. Europe.

Hope this helps,
Tom

posted 10-07-2005 11:27 AM            

Prior to 1928, so far as I can tell, there was no standard for marking silver in Japan. Older pieces I have handled have mostly been either unmarked, or marked only with an artisan's signature stamp. Even after, many pieces of Japanese silver are unmarked, as the law apparently did not mandate the practice -- just set standards for when it was done. And it seems to me, from the pieces I've handled (and unfortunately I've never been able to travel to Japan for comparison purposes), that most of what gets marked is for gaijin, not for Japanese customers.

Given the cultural-historical context I suspect there was little demand for foreign silver among Japanese people, at least prior to the late 20th century if not still. And I would further suspect that the main market for Japanese silver among foreigners would be from tourists and from people stationed/working in Japan. To the best of my knowledge, Russians have not been a major part of that group -- with the possible exception of the period of occupation -- so again the question: why 84? Why not 'sterling' or simply 'silver' as in so much of the rest of Asia?

posted 01-08-2007 02:03 AM            

Don't believe I've found a definitive answer, but the research I've done indicates that there were Russian silversmiths working in the Russian-built city of Harbin in Manchuria, which was basically under Japanese control after 1904-5, many Russian refugees ended up in Harbin after the revolution. Suspect there is some connection to the silver industry in Harbin, with these spoons being souvenir items produced prior to WWII for the busy Japanese ports of Nagasaki and Moji.

I'm unable to post a pic of mine at the moment, but the handle is near identical to ones posted, but is from Nagasaki with the chrysanthemum-engraved bowl and much more detail to the marks which include the 84 above a shield with # symbol flanked by the two flowers, the additional stamped marks are an 84 and kanji.

Cheryl

posted 09-29-2013 07:39 PM            

Even with the '84' marks, have always been uncomfortable with the silver content on these spoons, in part because they so often have a yellowish cast, and especially after running across some that most definitely displayed worn plating on brass. There seems to a fairly good number of them out there, and perhaps some are indeed solid silver, but will say that the one I've kept for years troubled me because it never tarnished in the spoon case despite others near it showing expected oxidation. Took it with me the last time I visited my friendly precious metals dealer, his XRF spectrometer showed it as 'cupronickel', copper and nickel with other trace elements, no silver content at all, indicating that it isn't even plated.

Personally, despite the '84' seeming to have no bearing on the silver content, still suspect some sort of connection to Russian silver, perhaps just originally catering to a Russian market. Doubt that any date later than the 1930s, would guess a bit earlier, possibly even late 19th century as suggested, but believe the first quarter of the 20th is more likely. Have also run across several of the spoon bowls stamped or engraved with naval anchors and/or crossed American/Japanese flags, symbolism used fairly often on souvenir items from the 1908 arrival of the American fleet in Japan. These spoons are also found from Yokohama, along with the other port cities of Nagasaki and Moji, they may exist from other locations too, but can't recall running across any...