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tline3open  Early Christofle silver plate mark... or Not ???

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Author Topic:   Early Christofle silver plate mark... or Not ???
scottag

Posts: 5
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 10-16-2007 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1517]

Hello all,

I have recently bought a nice Gallia chocolatier set, the person I bought it from knew little about it so I am attempting to work out who the maker was and when made which is proving a challenge as Ii can't find the same makers mark anywhere.

I hope that it might be an early CHRISTOFLE mark but have no evidence to support this hunch.

I would be very grateful if you can have a look at the marks and share your learned thoughts with me.

Many thanks


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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Scottag and welcome to the forum. smile

If you can add some more information to your first posting I think you may be more likely to receive helpful responses. If you go back and re-read Please Read Before You Post at the start of this page you will see that we ask people who are new to the forum to provide us with some introductory information on their interest in silver and in the particular object about which they have a question. We are simply a group of people who enjoy discussing and collecting silver and as such is good form to introduce yourself and let us know a bit about your interests in silver and why you are interested in this particular set about which you are asking.

Thanks!

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've readd the topic and I don't know if it's possible to read the topics about Christofle silverware in the search function at this forum. I have visited it myself (after info from a other member)to learn about Christofle. There is a topic from member Doobies for instance dated 6 December 2003 with a lot of information. One of the things are mentioned in this topic that C(ompagnie) C(hristofel) used his two C's in his mark till 1935. After that it changed into O.....C.(Orfevrerie Christofle)info by Doobies. But look for yourself and found what some other members just had find out about Christofle.

A lot of success it's a nice set, enjoy it. So if I understand it, it's a pattern made before 1935 that's for sure, only the right period I can't say and which style this is also. Perhaps it's a remade set of a older pattern?

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Kayvee

Posts: 204
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kayvee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your lovely silverplated chocolate or coffee service in the Louis XVI style was made by Christofle after 1937. If the top of the lid on the pot swivels open to allow insertion of a chocolate muddler, then it is a chocolate service; if not it is a coffee service. I think it is the latter because of the presence of a cream jug. Both chocolate and coffee pots can have side handles. Hope this helps.

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scottag

Posts: 5
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts though it seems that the information is conflicting !!!

As on the one hand it seems that Christofle marks contained C.C. up until 1935, yet I am then led to believe this set was produced in 1937.

So I am grateful for the replies but am still none the wiser, Does anyone have any reference to a Christofle mark bearing this fox head and c.c. I have failed to trace any such mark.

Perhaps it is not Christofle at all???

But who if indeed that is the case.

The pot lid is hinged and flips back though a can't see anything that would indicate another part could be inserted.

I was told by a fairly knowledgeable source that it was a chocolate set and that this could be told by the size of the sugar container which is very large, as apparently a lot of sugar was added to the unsweetened chocolate !!!

How true this is I cannot say but it sounded reasonable looking at the size of the sugar.

Thanks again for any further thoughts.

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scottag

Posts: 5
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yes...sorry I forgot to mention that the sugar is gilt lined which I thought quite unusual being silver plate !!

Is this something that you have seen before, I think that I once read this was a trait of early Christofle in the early days of the companies plate production, but unfortunately I can't find anything that tells what marks were used at this time.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scottag,

Please respond to Kimo. Thanks.


quote:
Originally posted by Kimo:
Hello Scottag and welcome to the forum. smile

If you can add some more information to your first posting I think you may be more likely to receive helpful responses. If you go back and re-read [b]Please Read Before You Postat the start of this page you will see that we ask people who are new to the forum to provide us with some introductory information on their interest in silver and in the particular object about which they have a question. We are simply a group of people who enjoy discussing and collecting silver and as such is good form to introduce yourself and let us know a bit about your interests in silver and why you are interested in this particular set about which you are asking. Thanks![/b]


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Kayvee

Posts: 204
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-17-2007 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kayvee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry for any confusion about the marks on your coffee service. The Christofle Gallia collection was marked “Gallia Métal” from 1908 until 1937. After 1937 the Gallia collection was marked “Orfèvrerie Gallia,” and the leopard head with the CC initials for Charles Christofle was added. Therefore according to the marks, your service was manufactured after 1937. Information about Christofle marks can be found in the catalog of a 1991 touring exhibition that celebrated the 150th anniversary of the founding of the firm, entitled “Christofle: 150 ans d’art et de rêve.” This publication is available from various online sources. Another reference for Christofle marks is an article in the French antiques magazine “Antiquités,” no. 101, October 2006.

As for the sugar bowl in your coffee service – the size doesn’t strike me as overly large. Don’t forget that French sugar bowls are generally good sized as the French use sugar cubes rather than granulated sugar for their hot beverages and sugar cubes take up more room. The gilding in your sugar bowl in my opinion is a sign of quality rather than of age. I believe that your service is a coffee service rather than a chocolate service for 2 reasons – the presence of a cream jug and the absence of an opening in the lid of the pot for a muddler.

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scottag

Posts: 5
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 10-18-2007 05:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Kimo thanks for the welcome,

I am generally interested in all sorts of metal ware and have been collecting a few bits of jungendstil by various makers though i find myself recently straying off into silver and plate items that seem to be of quality but not necessarily related to the nouveau movement.

Hence this set !! that seemed to good to pass as it was very reasonably priced at the flea market i found it at.

I would very much like to be able to confirm that this Fox/leopard head is indeed a Christofle mark as I can't find any reference to this marks usage.

Many thanks to all,
Regards Scott.

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Kayvee

Posts: 204
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-18-2007 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kayvee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you considered contacting Christofle directly through their website? This might help put your mind at rest. Good luck on your quest to authenticate this service!

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scottag

Posts: 5
Registered: Oct 2007

iconnumber posted 10-18-2007 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for scottag     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Kayvee,

Thanks for your input, I did send the question and images to the contact address at the site a few days ago but have not received a reply.

I think the problem may be that its just a general contact email address and probably wont make it through to the museum department. I will update you if I do receive a reply though.
Many thanks.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 10-25-2007 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Today I've looked on internet and found these two titles about Christofle silver, so they exist.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 10-27-2007 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a type of chocolate set that I have seen a few times that did not involve a muddler. The pot held a concentrated hot bitter chocolate syrup, it was put in suspension be gently rocking the pot. Warm cream and sugar were mixed in cups and then the hot liquid was poured in. It was very tasty, sort of like a bittersweet chocolate. My impression was that this was Eastern European in origin.

There is one other use I have run into for sets of this type. I doubt that there ever were silver sets made for this, but I have seen it in use. The main pot holds warmed brandy. The gilt piece contains lemon wedges. The small pitcher contains a pourable honey and water mixture. The brandy goes into a cup, with honey and lemon added. Great for colds and congestions. Or whatever.

Which really does not get us anywhere in figuring out this lovely set.

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